Monkeyboy wrote:Feith just said on The Daily Show that he's a Phillies fan. Yuck.

He defended the charge that the administration lied by pretty much saying, "No, we were incompetent." How is that a defense? That doesn't make me feel better than them lying.

Interesting and somewhat depressing takeon how a President Obama would be viewed in the Muslim world.

As for the Feith thing, I seriously thought I was going to throw up when he said he was a Phillies fan. Alito, I can deal with; Feith--whom my (Republican) uncle went to high school with, and saw as a massive a-hole even then--not so much.

dajafi wrote:Interesting and somewhat depressing takeon how a President Obama would be viewed in the Muslim world.

As for the Feith thing, I seriously thought I was going to throw up when he said he was a Phillies fan. Alito, I can deal with; Feith--whom my (Republican) uncle went to high school with, and saw as a massive a-hole even then--not so much.

Well, he is from Philadelphia

dajafi wrote:Interesting and somewhat depressing takeon how a President Obama would be viewed in the Muslim world.

This should be addressed before the election. Obama should ask countries like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to say this is a non-issue. While I can imagine Muslims wanting to kill him, it's not like it's safe for the US President in these countries now.

pacino wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:

pacino wrote:56% of voters in West Virginia said that race isn't a factor in their vote. So 44% do factor in race...?

So Hillary is going to carry the 44% that factor in race by 70-30% and the 56% that don't 65-35%? But somehow we'll blame this on people being racist.

Well, 44% are racist.

According to exit polls thus far, 4 out of 5 African Americans said race was a factor. Does that make 80% of the African American Democratic electorate racist? Personally, I don't even know why anyone would dignify such a poll question with a response, and such a polling question indicates some race baiting IMO.

The term "racist" often gets thrown around. The definition of "racism" is the belief in a hierarchy among various human races or ethnic groups... IOW, believing that one race or ethnic group is inherently better than another. While such a belief may be held by some people, in this day and age I would suspect that is a rather miniscule minority in this country. More likely, for some it is an issue of "comfort level" (for lack of a better term)... some white folks may feel that the African American candidate doesn't understand their concerns, just as some black folks may feel the black candidate understands them better than the white candidates. Maybe for some there's some anxiety about something different (we've only had white guy prezes). Maybe some just don't have much interaction with others unlike themselves due to geographical demographics. It doesn't mean we should be fitting 30-40-some percent of the WV white democrats for klan hoods. It doesn't mean that 30-40-some percent are racists. Maybe some are not as "enlightened" or as "cosmopolitan" as you would like. Maybe some are even a little ignorant regarding some things outside their respective monkey sphere. But it's not necessarily racism. Don't paint with such a broad brush.

Laexile wrote:

dajafi wrote:Interesting and somewhat depressing takeon how a President Obama would be viewed in the Muslim world.

This should be addressed before the election. Obama should ask countries like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to say this is a non-issue. While I can imagine Muslims wanting to kill him, it's not like it's safe for the US President in these countries now.

I think it might help Obama in the election.

TenuredVulture wrote:

Laexile wrote:

dajafi wrote:Interesting and somewhat depressing takeon how a President Obama would be viewed in the Muslim world.

This should be addressed before the election. Obama should ask countries like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to say this is a non-issue. While I can imagine Muslims wanting to kill him, it's not like it's safe for the US President in these countries now.

I think it might help Obama in the election.

The way that the Iranian crowds burning flags and chanting "DEATH TO CARTER!" in winter 1980 during the early part of the hostage crisis helped Carter beat Ted Kennedy in the primary?

TenuredVulture wrote:

Laexile wrote:

dajafi wrote:Interesting and somewhat depressing takeon how a President Obama would be viewed in the Muslim world.

This should be addressed before the election. Obama should ask countries like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to say this is a non-issue. While I can imagine Muslims wanting to kill him, it's not like it's safe for the US President in these countries now.

I think it might help Obama in the election.

But how does he spin that? "I poop on your Allah"?

I don't think that story will see the light of day by many. I just read or saw a piece last week about all the people who still think he's Muslim. I don't think an opinion piece will change any of that

dajafi wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:

Laexile wrote:

dajafi wrote:Interesting and somewhat depressing takeon how a President Obama would be viewed in the Muslim world.

This should be addressed before the election. Obama should ask countries like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to say this is a non-issue. While I can imagine Muslims wanting to kill him, it's not like it's safe for the US President in these countries now.

I think it might help Obama in the election.

The way that the Iranian crowds burning flags and chanting "DEATH TO CARTER!" in winter 1980 during the early part of the hostage crisis helped Carter beat Ted Kennedy in the primary?

I'm thinking more like the fatwa helped sell Rushdie's book Satanic Verses, and got him a cameo on Bridgette Jones movie.

Phan In Phlorida wrote:According to exit polls thus far, 4 out of 5 African Americans said race was a factor. Does that make 80% of the African American Democratic electorate racist? Personally, I don't even know why anyone would dignify such a poll question with a response, and such a polling question indicates some race baiting IMO.

The term "racist" often gets thrown around. The definition of "racism" is the belief in a hierarchy among various human races or ethnic groups... IOW, believing that one race or ethnic group is inherently better than another. While such a belief may be held by some people, in this day and age I would suspect that is a rather miniscule minority in this country. More likely, for some it is an issue of "comfort level" (for lack of a better term)... some white folks may feel that the African American candidate doesn't understand their concerns, just as some black folks may feel the black candidate understands them better than the white candidates. Maybe for some there's some anxiety about something different (we've only had white guy prezes). Maybe some just don't have much interaction with others unlike themselves due to geographical demographics. It doesn't mean we should be fitting 30-40-some percent of the WV white democrats for klan hoods. It doesn't mean that 30-40-some percent are racists. Maybe some are not as "enlightened" or as "cosmopolitan" as you would like. Maybe some are even a little ignorant regarding some things outside their respective monkey sphere. But it's not necessarily racism. Don't paint with such a broad brush.

the klan has a decent presence in WV, FWIW.

And yes, if someone votes for/against someone entirely based upon their race, that is using a racist vantage point. To deny that there is plenty of soft racism in this country is to deny the truth. 'comfort level' is out of ignorance and/or fear and also racist thoughts passed down from family. using the word racism is off-putting to many because no one actually likes to be called out as doing something racist or believing something racist. fact is, lots hold these views and act upon them, even if it's only at the polls or in not hiring someone or in not saying hello to someone, etc etc. they aren't klan members, but they're actually probably worse for society because of numbers and the implicit idea that it's ok to act or think that way.

one can have opinions and base their actions upon them, but both can still be wrong. there are wrong mindsets.

pacino wrote:the klan has a decent presence in WV's Senate delegation, FWIW.

FYP

The poll question was "is race a factor" not "was your decision based on race," wasn't it? I think race is a factor.

The Klan has more members in PA than anywhere else in the country

jerseyhoya wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuRHRRYHKIY[/youtube]

Dashing to the center.

So who is he talking about when he says, "another side denies a problem even exists?"

His base?

Houshphandzadeh wrote:The poll question was "is race a factor" not "was your decision based on race," wasn't it? I think race is a factor.

Yes. Which is why calling them all racists is absurd.

pacino wrote:

Phan In Phlorida wrote:According to exit polls thus far, 4 out of 5 African Americans said race was a factor. Does that make 80% of the African American Democratic electorate racist? Personally, I don't even know why anyone would dignify such a poll question with a response, and such a polling question indicates some race baiting IMO.

The term "racist" often gets thrown around. The definition of "racism" is the belief in a hierarchy among various human races or ethnic groups... IOW, believing that one race or ethnic group is inherently better than another. While such a belief may be held by some people, in this day and age I would suspect that is a rather miniscule minority in this country. More likely, for some it is an issue of "comfort level" (for lack of a better term)... some white folks may feel that the African American candidate doesn't understand their concerns, just as some black folks may feel the black candidate understands them better than the white candidates. Maybe for some there's some anxiety about something different (we've only had white guy prezes). Maybe some just don't have much interaction with others unlike themselves due to geographical demographics. It doesn't mean we should be fitting 30-40-some percent of the WV white democrats for klan hoods. It doesn't mean that 30-40-some percent are racists. Maybe some are not as "enlightened" or as "cosmopolitan" as you would like. Maybe some are even a little ignorant regarding some things outside their respective monkey sphere. But it's not necessarily racism. Don't paint with such a broad brush.

the klan has a decent presence in WV, FWIW.

And yes, if someone votes for/against someone entirely based upon their race, that is using a racist vantage point. To deny that there is plenty of soft racism in this country is to deny the truth. 'comfort level' is out of ignorance and/or fear and also racist thoughts passed down from family. using the word racism is off-putting to many because no one actually likes to be called out as doing something racist or believing something racist. fact is, lots hold these views and act upon them, even if it's only at the polls or in not hiring someone or in not saying hello to someone, etc etc. they aren't klan members, but they're actually probably worse for society because of numbers and the implicit idea that it's ok to act or think that way.

one can have opinions and base their actions upon them, but both can still be wrong. there are wrong mindsets.

So by your logic and definition, the above referenced 80% of the African American Democratic electorate is racist.

That's really a red herring to what we're talking about, but I would say that what you highlighted shows that they're likely not all racist. i doubt a black person's entire thought process 'ooo skin', just like many whites don't thinkt hat way. many of them probably have racist thoughts though,and those influence their decisions, just like a large part of the white voters that responded.

housh - in what way is race a factor in your decision? seriously

you're really up in arms about my responding 'off hte cuff' john mccain-style and being glib by saying that '44% are racist'. I doubt that's the case, but many of htem have racist thoughts. basically, i believe there is racism, you don't. that's fine.

btw, that last sentence was me being glib again

housh - in what way is race a factor in your decision? seriously

On the positive end, I think his unique background adds to his ability to get citizens who probably agree with me on a lot of issues more involved in the political process.

On the negative end, his 20-year involvement with Wright - while not a deal-breaker - was bad politics and not endearing to me. That a racial issue in some sense, no?

Houshphandzadeh wrote:On the negative end, his 20-year involvement with Wright - while not a deal-breaker - was bad politics and not endearing to me. That a racial issue in some sense, no?

IMO yes, but maybe not in the way you're thinking about it.

I don't think it's a huge newsflash to point out that there are currents of thought in the African-American community that most whites would perceive as really alien. Wright's crazier sentiments almost certainly comprise a minority view among American blacks, but they're sufficiently common that when they're heard, people don't flip out.

In "Dreams From My Father," Obama talks about how and why he joined Wright's church. I left my copy of the book with a friend in California, but IIRC it initially had to do with his efforts to gain credibility as a community organizer in a neighborhood that was predisposed to see him as (ironically enough) not authentically Black. Between his very different family background and his Ivy League pedigree, this was a valid concern on his part. Then, if you believe Obama, it evolved into something genuinely spiritual--a sense on his part that the Christian message (as opposed to the grievance-based race message) Wright preached applied to African-Americans on the South Side of Chicago, but also to a much broader human community.

The power of that experience--as well as the practical value I'm sure he derived, once he went into politics in the mid-'90s--from membership in a high-profile church like Trinity, probably helped impel him to view Wright's bloviations as no more harmful than an eccentric relative's theories about who killed JFK or why we should be scared about fluoride in the water. Was it a misjudgment? I guess. But I actually liked that Obama didn't throw him aside in March, and I'm sorry that Wright--who obviously can't or won't get past his own bitterness--eventually left him no choice but to do so.