The ONE AND ONLY Politics Thread

Postby Monkeyboy » Tue Apr 29, 2008 15:49:46

I guess my reaction to all of this is to ask if voter fraud is realy a problem right now that needs fixing, particularly with something that opens up other avenues for voter fraud. I mean, how many people are going around commiting voter fraud? I am MUCH more concerned about electronic voting systems that have proven to be susceptible to hacking. It would take a lot less people to do widespread damage through this avenue than through people showing up with no IDs or fake IDs.

The current adminstration and their crooked lackies in the voting division have resisted attempts to fix electronic voting problems and have tried to focus attention on IDs and such, which would require a fairly grand conspiracy, or at least some people highly placed in the process. After everything that's gone on, I tend to look to see what the other hand is doing.
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Postby dajafi » Tue Apr 29, 2008 15:58:15

NYT editorial:

The court has long recognized that the right to vote is so fundamental that a state cannot restrict it unless it can show that the harm it is seeking to prevent outweighs the harm it imposes on voters.

The Indiana law does not meet this test. The harm it imposes on voters, some of whom will no doubt be discouraged from casting ballots, is considerable. The state’s interest in the law, on the other hand, is minimal. It was supposedly passed to prevent people from impersonating others at the polls, but there is no evidence that this has ever happened in Indiana. It seems far more likely that the goal of the law’s Republican sponsors was to disenfranchise groups that lean Democratic.

Unfortunately, only three justices voted to hold the law unconstitutional. The other six fell into two groups. Three — Justices John Paul Stevens and Anthony Kennedy and Chief Justice John Roberts — signed a lead opinion that set a disturbingly low bar for what sort of interference with voting the Constitution permits. A second opinion, signed by Justices Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito, was worse. It argued for upholding all but the most severe and unjustified burdens on voting. Richard Hasen, a Loyola Law School professor, notes that if the court had taken this opinion’s approach in 1966, it is not clear it would have overturned the poll tax.


Except that back in the day, the Poll Tax generally helped elect Democrats. This bunch of partisan hacks certainly wouldn't have countenanced that.

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Postby dajafi » Tue Apr 29, 2008 16:04:23

Don't think anyone's posted this yet:

Image

Sullivan calls this "the Rove effect":

This, by the way, is the fruit of an alleged political genius, turdblossom himself, a shamelessly effective tactician, but one of the worst political strategists in modern times. He has helped kill the Republican brand - and poison it for a generation.

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Postby Monkeyboy » Tue Apr 29, 2008 16:06:10

I really think there needs to be term limits on the surpreme court. These people hold too much power.
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Postby TenuredVulture » Tue Apr 29, 2008 16:10:49

dajafi wrote:Don't think anyone's posted this yet:

Image

Sullivan calls this "the Rove effect":

This, by the way, is the fruit of an alleged political genius, turdblossom himself, a shamelessly effective tactician, but one of the worst political strategists in modern times. He has helped kill the Republican brand - and poison it for a generation.


While I don't think much of Rove as a strategist, I don't think he killed the Republican brand by himself. I think Iraq and Katrina had a lot more to do with that.
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Postby Woody » Tue Apr 29, 2008 16:11:15

Why aren't there term limits anyway?
you sure do seem to have a lot of time on your hands to be on this forum? Do you have a job? Are you a shut-in?

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Postby jerseyhoya » Tue Apr 29, 2008 16:43:40

dajafi wrote:NYT editorial:

The court has long recognized that the right to vote is so fundamental that a state cannot restrict it unless it can show that the harm it is seeking to prevent outweighs the harm it imposes on voters.

The Indiana law does not meet this test. The harm it imposes on voters, some of whom will no doubt be discouraged from casting ballots, is considerable. The state’s interest in the law, on the other hand, is minimal. It was supposedly passed to prevent people from impersonating others at the polls, but there is no evidence that this has ever happened in Indiana. It seems far more likely that the goal of the law’s Republican sponsors was to disenfranchise groups that lean Democratic.

Unfortunately, only three justices voted to hold the law unconstitutional. The other six fell into two groups. Three — Justices John Paul Stevens and Anthony Kennedy and Chief Justice John Roberts — signed a lead opinion that set a disturbingly low bar for what sort of interference with voting the Constitution permits. A second opinion, signed by Justices Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito, was worse. It argued for upholding all but the most severe and unjustified burdens on voting. Richard Hasen, a Loyola Law School professor, notes that if the court had taken this opinion’s approach in 1966, it is not clear it would have overturned the poll tax.


Except that back in the day, the Poll Tax generally helped elect Democrats. This bunch of partisan hacks certainly wouldn't have countenanced that.


That right wing nut Stevens will do anything, ANYTHING!, if it will help Republicans win.

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Postby dajafi » Tue Apr 29, 2008 17:00:14

My point is less about Stevens than about the Loyal Bushies who came up with this garbage law in the first place.

As I said yesterday, you (and any Republican, for that matter) have absolutely no credibility as a defender of the integrity of the democratic process. Send regrets to Katherine Harris and Ken Blackwell, and CC Monica Goodling.

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Postby Phan In Phlorida » Tue Apr 29, 2008 17:22:39

Purple ink :!:
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Postby jerseyhoya » Tue Apr 29, 2008 17:26:18

dajafi wrote:My point is less about Stevens than about the Loyal Bushies who came up with this garbage law in the first place.

As I said yesterday, you (and any Republican, for that matter) have absolutely no credibility as a defender of the integrity of the democratic process. Send regrets to Katherine Harris and Ken Blackwell, and CC Monica Goodling.


As a Democrat you have no credibility in arguing black people shouldn't be slaves. Send regrets to James Buchanan, Stephen Douglas and John C. Calhoun.

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Postby Phan In Phlorida » Tue Apr 29, 2008 17:28:37

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Postby pacino » Tue Apr 29, 2008 17:37:06

jerseyhoya wrote:
dajafi wrote:My point is less about Stevens than about the Loyal Bushies who came up with this garbage law in the first place.

As I said yesterday, you (and any Republican, for that matter) have absolutely no credibility as a defender of the integrity of the democratic process. Send regrets to Katherine Harris and Ken Blackwell, and CC Monica Goodling.


As a Democrat you have no credibility in arguing black people shouldn't be slaves. Send regrets to James Buchanan, Stephen Douglas and John C. Calhoun.

OK, one more post in this thread before the eventual new one

relevance points go to dajafi


gas tax 'holiday' = won't lower gas AT ALL, profits will merely go from government coffers for highway and bridge repair to oil companies. i guess if you want less government that's a good thing..but it's simply a feel-good non-solution

the above also implies that a gas tax is somehow bad and that higher gas prices are somehow inherently bad
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Postby jerseyhoya » Tue Apr 29, 2008 17:41:09

pacino wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
dajafi wrote:My point is less about Stevens than about the Loyal Bushies who came up with this garbage law in the first place.

As I said yesterday, you (and any Republican, for that matter) have absolutely no credibility as a defender of the integrity of the democratic process. Send regrets to Katherine Harris and Ken Blackwell, and CC Monica Goodling.


As a Democrat you have no credibility in arguing black people shouldn't be slaves. Send regrets to James Buchanan, Stephen Douglas and John C. Calhoun.

OK, one more post in this thread before the eventual new one

relevance points go to dajafi


dajafi and I were similarly of voting age in 1856 and 2000, respectively.

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Postby Phan In Phlorida » Tue Apr 29, 2008 17:42:35

Latest out of Michigan...

Michigan Dems Propose Delegate Solution
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Postby Stay_Disappointed » Tue Apr 29, 2008 18:12:10

AP-
WASHINGTON - President Bush on Tuesday accused the Democratic-led Congress of blocking his proposals to deal with rising gas prices and dragging its feet on measures to address the sagging economy. He said he was “open to any ideas,” including a proposal backed by presidential contenders John McCain and Hillary Clinton to suspend gas and diesel taxes this summer.


Although I think it was the Mr Bush and the Republican-led Congress that has led to a lot of the current problems due to little-to-no regulation, a friendly hand shake to big oil, and a big middle finger to the middle and working classes.

But Bush quickly said that he favors longer-term fixes, such as encouraging new oil production in the United States and building new refineries at home. He renewed his call for opening areas of Alaska wilderness to oil exploration and production.


Hmm..although George Bush may not want to believe it, oil is going to run out, no matter how many oil refineries we build. Furthermore, instead of continuing to destroy the planet with the burning of fossil fuels (I kinda thought he finally accepted global warming) lets say maybe we try something else BESIDES OIL.

As OPEC's president now believes that crude oil prices may climb to as much as $200 a barrel, there are new forecasts here in the U.S. calling for gasoline to jump to between $5 and $6 a gallon over the next two to three years.


Alan Gaines, who is chairman of Houston-based Dune Energy, sees gas rising to $7-$8 a gallon. And Sean Brodrick, who is a commodities tracker at Weiss Research in Jupiter, projects a range of $5 to $6 a gallon.


$200 a barrel oil = economic collapse?

At the current price of oil the airline industry is having a hard enough time staying afloat. Prices for all goods are skyrocketing as the price of manufacture and transport is being passed on to consumers. People who have to drive large distances will be crippled with $8 (?!?!) a gallon gas. Food prices will continue to increase as crops are shifted towards corn and other biofuel crops.
I would rather see you lose than win myself

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Postby traderdave » Tue Apr 29, 2008 19:22:30

Phan In Phlorida wrote:Obama wins the "World Primary"


So there Hillary Clinton; you might take all the big states but Barack takes all the big COUNTRIES!!! I guess this means Obama is back in the lead on popular vote? :wink:

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Postby VoxOrion » Tue Apr 29, 2008 19:39:09

How weird is it that none of you are talking about the whole Obama/Wright thing? The latest response from Obama is rough. This stuff, combined with Hillary, is not good for him - practically a perfect storm of "crap, I want people to change the subject!"
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Postby TenuredVulture » Tue Apr 29, 2008 19:41:11

VoxOrion wrote:How weird is it that none of you are talking about the whole Obama/Wright thing? The latest response from Obama is rough. This stuff, combined with Hillary, is not good for him - practically a HAMELS storm of "crap, I want people to change the subject!"


As you know, most of us BSG lefties are Obama supporters, and we're just following orders.

It's either that, or the whole Democratic race has grown rather tiresome.
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Postby VoxOrion » Tue Apr 29, 2008 19:48:02

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Postby dajafi » Tue Apr 29, 2008 19:55:19

jerseyhoya wrote:Send regrets to James Buchanan, Stephen Douglas and John C. Calhoun.


Given this, you probably should just admit you could give a rat's ass about the integrity of the process, and enjoy all the "wins" this will help you achieve. I promise we won't think less of you.

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