I'm OK with Bradford on a 3/$36M or 3/$45M deal. I'm not OK with Bradford on a 6/$126M deal

The difference being Chip DID suck last year. But kudos for the creative Bradford trade.

Grotewold wrote:The difference being Chip DID suck last year. But kudos for the creative Bradford trade.

Sure, I just think the stigma that he has is a weird one. Like, we're talking about a guy who still has a winning record as an NFL coach. He's got flaws, no question about it, but people act like he's Ruben Amaro.

I really can't get a read on things at all. These reports contradict each other. The data is also confusing. What would his stats have been if Chip and the entire offense didn't have a lot of issues. For example:

Give him 2013 Oline
Maclin, Desean, J Math as his WR corp
Half the amount of drops
And Shady McCoy instead of R Math and Murray

What would bradford's passer rating, and QBR be then? TD:INTs?

It's a stretch to call this guy "amazing". And the two things that aren't known are:

1) If he solidifies in a system and with one coach for 3 years - can he get better?
2) Can he stay healthy - now?

I'm not scared to move on from Bradford, even right now. But it's unlikely Chase Daniels gives anything superior. He's had 7 years, if he was all that he'd have emerged somewhere. Been traded for a pick ala Aj Feeley or Kevin Klob. I think best case it's Mark Sanchize 2.0 and worst case it's Koy Detmer or AJ Feeley.

The choices are:

Sam
RGIII
Rookie QB w/ Journeyman to start first few games

RGIII is funny because after a decade of RC and a decade of Donovan and a few later years of Vick, it almost seems like its the Eagles fate to have another fast mobile QB who can make plays with his legs - has potentially a big arm - and big play capability - but unsure if he can lead a team and in to playoffs? Can we get RGIII to be our R Wilson?

I'd prefer that to Chase Daniels or Mark Sanchez or Nick Foles.

Bradford - he could get hurt again - he could playbetter or same or worse -- likely not a lot worse.

If our D was stout and running game robust and we had some speed at WR, and YAC guys - maybe Bradford is enough to do something? That's the line of rationale I've been putting for the last month as I hear people like Rob Ellis and Mikey Miss saying the same thing now. After they all stop yelling, they calm down and see what I saw months ago. Not a lot of options. Everyone is reticent to back Bradford with a lot of gusto - but has sort of seen the situation and realize there aren't a lot of options.

No one knows if Wents Goff Lynch or the Mich State kid are going to be legit starters. it's been a long time since the Birds just winged it with a young guy - and gave that young guy a year or two. Kolb is the closest thing. Hoying and the Detmer Bros. before that - I don't think AJ Feeley or Mike McMahon were serious candidates - ever. Mike Kafka.

So - a lot of unknown. Not likely we can get Goff or Wentz. Most now say Lynch isn't worth the value of #13 overall and we could use the OT badly.

It just feels like all roads lead to just keeping Bradford and building around him. If you have an outstanding team in all 3 facets but your QB is just not good enough - you can draw in a Palmer, Manning veteran to try to pull a Norm Van Brocklin.

I just can't see how they sign Bradford and re-work Fletcher - AND - get a FA G and FA S ??

But let Howie do his thing -- maybe there's a way??

mcare89 wrote:

Grotewold wrote:The difference being Chip DID suck last year. But kudos for the creative Bradford trade.

Sure, I just think the stigma that he has is a weird one. Like, we're talking about a guy who still has a winning record as an NFL coach. He's got flaws, no question about it, but people act like he's Ruben Amaro.

I still think there's a good coach in there, but we saw very few signs of it the last 18 months

Whoa ptk!

The Dude wrote:Whoa ptk!

He brings up a critical point-how does the FO give Bradford the money that he wants and also give Cox the money that he deserves? If it's an either/or between these two guys, see ya Bradford.

The problem is the perceived upside and youth (though he'll play next year at 29) necessitating throwing the type of contract at him that will require a 2-3 year dead money cap hit commitment.

I think people underestimate the extent to which league passing stats have ballooned. You can look at 86 rating in a shit offense and some hot play toward the end and you compare that vs. some of the dreck we've had recently (or even some McNabb years), at it looks, not awful? But when Barnwell says he topped out at league average last year, he's right.

Bradford is what he is, which I think is Barnwell's point. It is true that his only demonstrated above average skill is avoiding INTs

Category - Career Stat - 2016 Stat - (Active Rank) ((2016 Rank))

Attempts per Game - 36.4 - 38.0 (4) ((8)). He's thrown 2292 passes in his career, which is a significant career SS.

Passer Rating - 81.0 - 86.4 - (23) ((26)).

Yards per Attempt - 6.5 - 7.0 - (30) ((25)). 2016 was a career year!

Adjusted Net Yards per Attempt - 5.32 - 5.85 - (25) ((26))

TD % - 3.4% - 3.6% (30) ((25))

INT % - 2.3% - 2.6% (4) ((25)). His one demonstrated skill for his career.

He throws a lot, at demonstrably inefficient rates, does not throw touchdowns, and gets hurt. I know people have been saying franchise him next year, but let's say he manages to stay healthy, puts up 87 QB rating (which would again be good for him but again below average), what do you do? Is Peterson going to be eager to move on from him with all those pretty hitch routes fitting his shitty short passing system?

Please bail now

Sounded to me like you could do a three-year deal with at worst one additional dead cap year. We'll see.

Would still rather punt with a 1 year guy, even if we will stink. I see no upside in him and wouldn't be surprised if Chase Daniel or whoever equaled or surpassed him in this system. YMMV

rolex wrote:

The Dude wrote:Whoa ptk!

He brings up a critical point-how does the FO give Bradford the money that he wants and also give Cox the money that he deserves? If it's an either/or between these two guys, see ya Bradford.

I just meant the FA G

The Dude wrote:

rolex wrote:

The Dude wrote:Whoa ptk!

He brings up a critical point-how does the FO give Bradford the money that he wants and also give Cox the money that he deserves? If it's an either/or between these two guys, see ya Bradford.

I just meant the FA G

Need to sign one to appease dim

The Dude wrote:

rolex wrote:

The Dude wrote:Whoa ptk!

He brings up a critical point-how does the FO give Bradford the money that he wants and also give Cox the money that he deserves? If it's an either/or between these two guys, see ya Bradford.

I just meant the FA G

I'm dieing

if its cox or bradford then i got cox. if we can have cox one a multie year deal and a franchise bradford then i do it. Bradford screams Alex Smith to me. maybe better. i think you can win a SB with that kind of QB.

Get Kaep

Free Agency Starts in two weeks and I think we are going to jump into it with a OL and a Safety very early and then let the market settle and run through the draft process.

My guess for OL is Jahri Evans (Local Product at Guard) and George Iloka (Safety). They just make sense and seem like good fits. Down the road i think we will add a veteran LB, maybe 2 depending on how the draft falls. I believe that we will run this draft inside out and we will focus on the OL and DL heavily.

Smith is a useful comp for a structure for a deal too. He got 4/68 in his age 29 year. 45 guaranteed. I think you can start out with Bradford at 4/55; 30 guaranteed and see where that takes you. That gets him to just about 100 million in his career. essentially make it a 2 year deal with rising cap hits and lower dead cap money in 18 or 19 to hedge bets and allow max flexibility in 16 and 17.

Jahri Evans was released out of an existing contract making him a street free agent. We could sign him right now if we wanted to.

laf837 wrote:Smith is a useful comp for a structure for a deal too. He got 4/68 in his age 29 year. 45 guaranteed. I think you can start out with Bradford at 4/55; 30 guaranteed and see where that takes you. That gets him to just about 100 million in his career. essentially make it a 2 year deal with rising cap hits and lower dead cap money in 18 or 19 to hedge bets and allow max flexibility in 16 and 17.

You're not getting Bradford for less than Smith's deal. And you're certainly not getting him for 4/55.

Stripes wrote:

laf837 wrote:Smith is a useful comp for a structure for a deal too. He got 4/68 in his age 29 year. 45 guaranteed. I think you can start out with Bradford at 4/55; 30 guaranteed and see where that takes you. That gets him to just about 100 million in his career. essentially make it a 2 year deal with rising cap hits and lower dead cap money in 18 or 19 to hedge bets and allow max flexibility in 16 and 17.

You're not getting Bradford for less than Smith's deal. And you're certainly not getting him for 4/55.

At a certain point with Bradford, the Birds have to say thanks and good bye. An offer in the area of Alex Smith's is a fair deal. If he wants more, let him find it somewhere else. There are the past injury issues that can't be ignored. He is a competent QB but not an elite one. There are/will be other QBs to be had if he leaves either through the draft, trade or FA. I'd rather put up with Sanchez for another season than overpay Bradford and then be in a bad way with Fletcher Cox.