Pat Gillick has got to be approaching 80, right? If we don't get everything done this offseason, we're might need a new architect

Look. I like the Dude. I don't have him on ignore, like I do most of you. And I hope whoever whispered to him was speaking truths. But, for now, the evidence suggests that we have deep organizational problems, and that solving them from within might be an issue.

I'd feel a bit better about eskin's report of Joey bats played lf this year.

It took a little while to walk into these woods. It's going to take a little time to find our way out.

Shore wrote:Pat Gillick has got to be approaching 80, right? If we don't get everything done this offseason, we're might need a new architect

Look. I like the Dude. I don't have him on ignore, like I do most of you. And I hope whoever whispered to him was speaking truths. But, for now, the evidence suggests that we have deep organizational problems, and that solving them from within might be an issue.

the deep organizational problems were from the people no longer here, so that's the positive thing. if i see mccarthy in a dodgers hat with middleton's kid i'll recant

What did you hear the dude? Spill the beans

i hope it wasnt me farting. i just couldn't hold it anymore

Well I didn't see this coming. Big shakeups like this can go either way. I still think Amaro is the #1 problem. You can talk about analytics and everything but all you need is a crumb of baseball knowledge to know this team, as currently comprised, is not good and was not going to be good. If Monty was tying Rube's hands then I will give him another chance. We are in for a long ride. The Minors are empty. I don't like moving Asche to LF. Enough with changing guys' positions. Go out and get a LF. Either way I'm glad a re-build has begun.

Shore wrote:

Grotewold wrote:

bleh wrote:And they have made some inroads with analytics recently with the extern.

Amaro has referred to analytics "people," fwiw

Completely agree with Shadow's take, which CD has actually been putting forth for weeks on the other board

You're shitting me with the CD thing, right? That's not support of a position, that's the kiss of death.

I'm just saying he's been making a strong argument about the Gillick and Middleton maneuvering for a while, which aligns with what I've heard independently and now a couple of the writers and Eskin are reporting.

I have a feeling if any of those people -- well, OK, maybe not CD -- were reporting that Monty and Giles and Rube were staying for five more years, you'd be blowing a gasket here. So maybe just let us enjoy this mildly.

Ok, but just mildly.

I just worry about all these guys being replaced over a long or semi-long period. You could end up with an almost totally new front office that was hired by the current front office. Since they're going to hire people like themselves, that would be a pretty bad thing. And then it would take another 3-5 years to get them replaced. I'm encouraged by Middleton's move, but I'm going to wait to see how the dominoes fall, if they do indeed fall.

But yeh, I feel a bit better today than two days ago.

of course a shakeup at the top is necessary and would be great. But the one thing here that scares me (and keep in mind this is all unattributed rumor at this point) is middleton saying what should be done with howie and hamels. I want an aggressive owner who puts Smart Baseball People in charge and doesn't meddle. A meddling owner could be a train wreck.

Gillick is the wrong guy to have as Pres if you want to be a middling owner, though

Did you mean meddling?

Was it those darn kids and their mangy dog?

whoops. middleton middling meddling

Or muddling if he was making a julep.

Hopefully not modeling though.

UMBrooks13 wrote:Well I didn't see this coming. Big shakeups like this can go either way. I still think Amaro is the #1 problem. You can talk about analytics and everything but all you need is a crumb of baseball knowledge to know this team, as currently comprised, is not good and was not going to be good. If Monty was tying Rube's hands then I will give him another chance. We are in for a long ride. The Minors are empty. I don't like moving Asche to LF. Enough with changing guys' positions. Go out and get a LF. Either way I'm glad a re-build has begun.

Aren't you the person who is always saying that the iron pigs actually have good prospects and that the people who say they don't have never seen a pigs game?

Don't let the negative Nancies get you down people, make no mistake about it, IF this goes down it will be the biggest moment in the franchise's history sans the two world championships.

The way the ownership structure is set up and has been set up for decades, no one owner can own a majority share, and a "Chairman" is appointed by the ownership group to have full authority in running the team. As we all know the Chairman for the last 15+ years or so was Dave Montgomery, and Bill Giles preceded him I believe. Both those guys had full decision making authority on baseball operations and the rest of the owners stayed completely out of the baseball side.

That all changed when Middleton sold his cigar company, became a billionaire and started buying more and more ownership interest in the team. He has badly wanted sole ownership of the team for years now and at the very least to be a majority owner and have full control of the baseball operations. Eskin's report seems to suggest that is imminent, and my belief is some recent deaths of Phillies owners has allowed Middleton to swing the majority of the group his way by convincing them him running the team is best for business. For example, I know that Jim Buck's son has zero interest in the Phillies......the family investment in baseball was 100% his dad who just passed away.

Anyway, here we sit and it appears Middleton is about to get his wish. I don't know John Middleton, but I know two people who know him very well and they say the Phillies are his passion all day every day. Once they won in 2008 and he got a taste of what that was like, he badly wanted more championships and recently has become "sickened" by the product on the field. Gillick would be his front man but that's probably only a1 or 2 year max deal as Gillick is just too old at this point for the job. Middleton will definitely be hands on though and will not tolerate what we've seen the last few years. I hesitate to compare him to George Steinbrenner because I don't think he is nuts like "Big Stein" was, but he is going to be active and do whatever it takes to bring the Phillies back to where they were in 2007-2011. Middleton was never a member of the "good ole boys" club that has run the Phillies for decades, so my guess is there will be a ton of changes coming in short order.

This is a huge, huge deal and a massive win for everyone who loves the Phillies.

Brantt wrote:Middleton was never a member of the "good ole boys" club that has run the Phillies for decades

Bingo

ek wrote:also think comcast may have provided a "nudge" as well

Very interesting point......hadn't thought of that.

I remain cautiously optimistic