FTN wrote:if we signed bourn, we could play with 6 infielders and have delmon just stand behind 2nd base as his defensive position, allowing rollins to play closer to the road cone at 3b. revere and bourn can cover the entire outfield

bring back marlon anderson

CFP wrote:The worst part of all of this is that it's somehow made John Mayberry look like a more attractive option. Heading into the off-season I wouldn't have thought that was possible

for me, Mayberry vs lefties is the one sure thing we have in the corners offensively and he can actually defend. I want him around

Squire wrote:Plus, Bourn still costs you the 1st round draft pick.

This. Plus the weaknesses in his game--his power is slightly better than Revere's and his strikeout rate is slightly better than Howard's--are more easily overlooked in January than they would be in July.

But the draft pick is the big thing. I love how so many of you deplore Amaro for having a too-old, too-expensive team, then whine when he doesn't sign someone on the wrong side of 30 to an eight-figure deal that also would cost the highest pick they've had in more than a decade. The last two times the Phillies drafted in this neighborhood, they got Hamels and Utley.

There are no great options right now for the Phillies. The seeds of this problem were planted when they whiffed on Savery and Hewitt half a decade back, and signed Howard to that abomination of a contract. I don't love having Delmon Young on my favorite team either, and Amaro's evident disregard for on-base percentage is baffling and infuriating. But this move is most likely to be a non-story, and next-most likely to be a net win. When you have an old, expensive, injury-prone team and some really strong opposition, you need to catch some breaks. There's more possibility of an upside break with Young IMO than with any other viable option they had.

getting a speedster turning 30 seems like a bad move on its face. i think people are just scrambling. sometimes it's better to stand pat (Stand Pat Gillick) than make a hysterical move. i think, for better or worse, we should just live with what we have for this year and see how this team does and reevaulate in July.

Houshphandzadeh wrote:

CFP wrote:The worst part of all of this is that it's somehow made John Mayberry look like a more attractive option. Heading into the off-season I wouldn't have thought that was possible

for me, Mayberry vs lefties is the one sure thing we have in the corners offensively and he can actually defend. I want him around

Mayberry is a better baseball player and better human being than Delmon Young in every way: hitting righties, lefties, baserunning, defense, character. This makes no sense.

Yeah, good point about the first-round pick.

to be honest, this draft looks pretty weak.

i appreciate the value of the first round pick in a vacuum, however, i think you have to look at all factors there. this is not an elite college pool draft. the phillies pick 16th. that is their highest pick in a while. but the last time they picked close to that spot (2007, 19th) they whiffed on savery. outside of the top 6-8 picks, you're taking riskier guys or guys with lower ceilings and higher probabilities. losing the pick also removes that money from the signing pool, which is the bigger downside than losing the actual 16th overall pick.

if you can get bourn for 3 years and 30m, isnt that something you explore? he was a 6 win player last year, and a bit more than a 4 win player the two years prior.

if you get 5, 4, and 3.5 WAR from him over the next 3 seasons, that's about $50m of value, and a huge win. no one here wants him for 5 or 6 years or for 18m per year. but when you start getting in to shorter deals for affordable money, then the pros start to outweigh the cons.

bourn in cf and revere in rf also gives us elite defense in 2 of 3 spots and might help mitigate the bad defense in lf, especially considering our short left field and the butchers we've run out there in recent years.

bourn (cf)
rollins
utley
howard
young
ruiz
revere (rf)
delmon

thats a solid lineup.

I was mostly kidding about Bourn. the point is Delmon Young fucking sucks so bad I'd rather give up a draft pick than have him on the team

FTN wrote:to be honest, this draft looks pretty weak.

i appreciate the value of the first round pick in a vacuum, however, i think you have to look at all factors there. this is not an elite college pool draft. the phillies pick 16th. that is their highest pick in a while. but the last time they picked close to that spot (2007, 19th) they whiffed on savery. outside of the top 6-8 picks, you're taking riskier guys or guys with lower ceilings and higher probabilities. losing the pick also removes that money from the signing pool, which is the bigger downside than losing the actual 16th overall pick.

if you can get bourn for 3 years and 30m, isnt that something you explore? he was a 6 win player last year, and a bit more than a 4 win player the two years prior.

Absolutely. Anyone who says otherwise is insane. I've been very much against signing Bourn, but that was based on what we all expected for a price tag. But even then, I always said that if you could get him at something like 3/$36, I'd jump at that. I just didn't want a fifth year or $17MM/year for 3 or more years, which is what we all thought.

Honestly, I'm just stunned to see him still out there in late January.

at this point, who are his realistic suitors?

everyone is assuming hes going back to atlanta on a 1 year deal. reds got a CF. yankees? no. dodgers? no. red sox? no. rangers? stills seems like the only other realistic fit.

FTN wrote:at this point, who are his realistic suitors?

everyone is assuming hes going back to atlanta on a 1 year deal. reds got a CF. yankees? no. dodgers? no. red sox? no. rangers? stills seems like the only other realistic fit.

Texas is all I've seen besides Atlanta.

I'd love to see the Phils do it for that price, but I can't imagine that scenario happening at this point.

FTN wrote:at this point, who are his realistic suitors?

everyone is assuming hes going back to atlanta on a 1 year deal. reds got a CF. yankees? no. dodgers? no. red sox? no. rangers? stills seems like the only other realistic fit.

Yeah especially if he's gonna go the one-year route, I would think we and Atlanta would be the best fits

Longer-term, maybe Baltimore? They're in on Kubel apparently

baltimore has adam jones and markakis, would be a waste to put bourn in lf

In any event I seriously doubt Bourn is on Rube's radar anyway. It's all just mental masturbation.

Decent analysis at BP today. Bottom line is there is an excellent chance he will suck but a 1 in 17 chance he turns into Cliff Floyd. The key to this deal is how the Phils handle it. If Young sucks and they cut him loose, they lose 750 large which is nothing. If he and Ruf are both really good and it costs Domonic Brown who cares because Young and Ruf are really good.

How the Phils react to this guy's performance is more important that the signing itself. The fact that it's essentially a minimum wage signing is potentially a very big deal. But the Phils have to be smart about how they react to what happens with this guy.

JFLNYC wrote:In any event I seriously doubt Bourn is on Rube's radar anyway. It's all just mental masturbation.

Sammy Hagar hates radar

It's worth noting Young was signed by a member of the Philadelphia Jewish Sports Hall of Fame.

http://www.phillyjewishsports.com/viewInductee.asp?ID=5

WHOA ROGER!!

Rob Maaddi ‏@RobMaaddi
Delmon Young's not-so-fat 750K contract w #Phillies has weight clause that could earn him an extra 600K. Total incentives for 2.75 mill.

This can't be happening