Napalm wrote:don't blame amaro, nobody wants to come here anymore like they did 2-3 years ago and thats the truth. there's always been the yanks and sox, and the phils emerged as a sexy empire, but now teams like the angels and dodgers and tigers and whatnot can spend just as much and look more attractive.

There's at least some truth to this. We can hope as much as we want that Utley and Howard will be fine, that Doc will come back, that Young has one more good year left in him, etc. But, from the perspective of possible acquisitions, I suspect they see an old, declining, un-sexy team.

dajafi wrote:

ek wrote:It will be ross or swisher or a trade

Please let it be a trade. Ross sucks, Swisher isn't worth losing the pick. But they don't have the depth to trade for anyone good.

Im coming to the conclusion that there's no easy fix or one move here. The problem with Amaro might be that he's always looking for that one move. I'm okay with most of what he's done this winter, but I also don't believe the team is dramatically better. Again, largely because that's probably not possible.

IMO 'The Move' was right in front of his face in Hamilton. The Young and Revere deals make sense if youre saving money for the big splash.

my cousin mose wrote:

dajafi wrote:

ek wrote:It will be ross or swisher or a trade

Please let it be a trade. Ross sucks, Swisher isn't worth losing the pick. But they don't have the depth to trade for anyone good.

Im coming to the conclusion that there's no easy fix or one move here. The problem with Amaro might be that he's always looking for that one move. I'm okay with most of what he's done this winter, but I also don't believe the team is dramatically better. Again, largely because that's probably not possible.

IMO 'The Move' was right in front of his face in Hamilton. The Young and Revere deals make sense if youre saving money for the big splash.

And thats why he set it up that way. He tried for Hamilton, but ultimately either Hamilton chose elsewhere, or the Phils couldnt offer him 5/125 or comparable, or he turned them down, we don't really know. He was going to sign a reliever and a starter anyway after the revere/young moves, and now he'll have to get extra creative to fill RF. If it IS swisher or ross, then that sucks. His whole construction plan revolved around Hamilton and a bunch of complimentary moves, that fell apart, so now its just a whole bunch of complimentary moves.

With Doc and Utley each in the last year of their contracts; with most of the core of the team much nearer the end than the beginning of their productive careers; with the opportunity to have one year over the tax threshold; with the world ending in less than a week, this is the year to go big or go home. Instead, Rube has taken a series of mediocre half measures which do nothing but delay the inevitable.

JFLNYC wrote:

Napalm wrote:don't blame amaro, nobody wants to come here anymore like they did 2-3 years ago and thats the truth. there's always been the yanks and sox, and the phils emerged as a sexy empire, but now teams like the angels and dodgers and tigers and whatnot can spend just as much and look more attractive.

There's at least some truth to this. We can hope as much as we want that Utley and Howard will be fine, that Doc will come back, that Young has one more good year left in him, etc. But, from the perspective of possible acquisitions, I suspect they see an old, declining, un-sexy team.

And that is why this offseason is fine. They are giving out short deals that let them kinda go for it without screwing themselves in the future.

Napalm wrote:

my cousin mose wrote:

dajafi wrote:

ek wrote:It will be ross or swisher or a trade

Please let it be a trade. Ross sucks, Swisher isn't worth losing the pick. But they don't have the depth to trade for anyone good.

Im coming to the conclusion that there's no easy fix or one move here. The problem with Amaro might be that he's always looking for that one move. I'm okay with most of what he's done this winter, but I also don't believe the team is dramatically better. Again, largely because that's probably not possible.

IMO 'The Move' was right in front of his face in Hamilton. The Young and Revere deals make sense if youre saving money for the big splash.

And thats why he set it up that way. He tried for Hamilton, but ultimately either Hamilton chose elsewhere, or the Phils couldnt offer him 5/125 or comparable, or he turned them down, we don't really know. He was going to sign a reliever and a starter anyway after the revere/young moves, and now he'll have to get extra creative to fill RF. If it IS swisher or ross, then that sucks. His whole construction plan revolved around Hamilton and a bunch of complimentary moves, that fell apart, so now its just a whole bunch of complimentary moves.

Ultimately I agree with all of this. I just can't understand why they didn't feel like Hamilton was worth giving 5 years in the first place. An offer of three years feels like horseshit for one of the best hitters in the game who shouldn't have been in the FA market in the first place

Practically no matter what they did this offseason the season depends on productive years from Utley, Howard and Halladay. If they don't get at least two out of three there, the season would be lost no matter who they signed.

my cousin mose wrote:

Napalm wrote:

my cousin mose wrote:

dajafi wrote:

ek wrote:It will be ross or swisher or a trade

Please let it be a trade. Ross sucks, Swisher isn't worth losing the pick. But they don't have the depth to trade for anyone good.

Im coming to the conclusion that there's no easy fix or one move here. The problem with Amaro might be that he's always looking for that one move. I'm okay with most of what he's done this winter, but I also don't believe the team is dramatically better. Again, largely because that's probably not possible.

IMO 'The Move' was right in front of his face in Hamilton. The Young and Revere deals make sense if youre saving money for the big splash.

And thats why he set it up that way. He tried for Hamilton, but ultimately either Hamilton chose elsewhere, or the Phils couldnt offer him 5/125 or comparable, or he turned them down, we don't really know. He was going to sign a reliever and a starter anyway after the revere/young moves, and now he'll have to get extra creative to fill RF. If it IS swisher or ross, then that sucks. His whole construction plan revolved around Hamilton and a bunch of complimentary moves, that fell apart, so now its just a whole bunch of complimentary moves.

Ultimately I agree with all of this. I just can't understand why they didn't feel like Hamilton was worth giving 5 years in the first place. An offer of three years feels like horseshit for one of the best hitters in the game who shouldn't have been in the FA market in the first place

Maybe montgomery or proferock or whoever the fuck can give amaro the go ahead on things told him not to break the bank for hamilton, give it their best shot at 3/80 w/ 4th vesting. The Phils have made exceptions in the past, but as awesome as Hamilton is, it's completely believable to think that Amaro wouldn't be given the go ahead to go all the way in on him since theres legit concern surrounding him. There's just too much we don't know, it's a bummer, but I have to force myself to wait until he makes the final final move and fills the OF, then maybe everything together doesnt look so bad, and they're obviously hoping for bounce back from the core

Wheels Tupay wrote:

JFLNYC wrote:

Napalm wrote:don't blame amaro, nobody wants to come here anymore like they did 2-3 years ago and thats the truth. there's always been the yanks and sox, and the phils emerged as a sexy empire, but now teams like the angels and dodgers and tigers and whatnot can spend just as much and look more attractive.

There's at least some truth to this. We can hope as much as we want that Utley and Howard will be fine, that Doc will come back, that Young has one more good year left in him, etc. But, from the perspective of possible acquisitions, I suspect they see an old, declining, un-sexy team.

And that is why this offseason is fine. They are giving out short deals that let them kinda go for it without screwing themselves in the future.

Exactly. The only game changer was Hamilton and we still have no reason to think he even wanted to come to Philly. Did anyone want RAJ to pay 5/140 for the guy or something? Or think that would even happen?

What about trading for Kendrys Morales to play RF? Is he able to play RF or is he better off at 1st?

Would like trading for Nelly Cruz.

Or Don Nelson. One Nelly of the two

Cruz is on the big-boy, post-30 slide downhill. Do not want.

Let's not forget that Chad Durbin is still available.

You have to think every one of these moves sets up for a big move to fill the final outfield spot, right? Maybe Amaro is going to trade the entire farm for Upton. His salary would still keep them where they wanted to be at after all the moves. Still trying to be optimistic

I don't know if it's Upton because I still have a hard time seeing the DBacks wanting what we can offer. But I would not be at all surprised to see him going hard after Trumbo.

JFLNYC wrote:With Doc and Utley each in the last year of their contracts; with most of the core of the team much nearer the end than the beginning of their productive careers; with the opportunity to have one year over the tax threshold; with the world ending in less than a week, this is the year to go big or go home. Instead, Rube has taken a series of mediocre half measures which do nothing but delay the inevitable.

i'd suppose the owners are more worried about ticket sales this season then they are letting on. it's absolutely important for this team to get a quick start and sell seats, or the payroll will probably drop substantially for a few years. if anything, this whole team has more pressure on them than 2011.

I think that's exactly right.

i don't think it does, if people don't show up. or it could be worth less, i don't know.

LongDrive wrote:What about trading for Kendrys Morales to play RF? Is he able to play RF or is he better off at 1st?

As someone who had Kendrys on a key fantasy team last year and watched alot of late night Angels' games, I can assure you that Kendrys is a DH. He's honestly a less athletic version of Carlos Lee.

ek wrote:then what is all the talk about this tv contract then. i guess that doesn't matter now?

Attendance and ratings are tied together. If no one is coming, no one is watching = smaller TV contract.