I'm really curious to hear what the final payroll is going to be for 2009. If Jflync is right and they're already looking at $120MM+ before a Burrell/Burrell replacement, that may mean that Amaro isn't going to have room to do much. Which might not necessarily be the worst of scenarios. Hellloooooo Pete Orr!!!!

Woody wrote: Which might not necessarily be the worst of scenarios. Hellloooooo Pete Orr!!!!

If we are looking for bargains, how about "Hello Kevin Mench"? Gargano mentioned today that Mench might be a RH bat they'd look at. He'd be cheap, has (except for last year) terrific splits against LHP and he'd love to play in Philly.

they just said on dnl that amaro has stated his assistant gm will come from outside the organization.

I hope that doesn't mean that Chuck LaMar is on the way out too. Lack of mention of him today has me a little worried.

BuddyGroom wrote:I hope that doesn't mean that Chuck LaMar is on the way out too. Lack of mention of him today has me a little worried.

No. There is no way that will happen. He was brought in to obviously help out with Gillick leaving. Increased role, plus Arbuckle leaving as well means more of an opportunity for him here.

BuddyGroom wrote:I hope that doesn't mean that Chuck LaMar is on the way out too. Lack of mention of him today has me a little worried.

radano felt that he was a better fit for scouting and will remain in that role.

Woody wrote:I'll put it this way: In some respects, I believe the Phillies happened to win a World Series in spite of themselves. Of course they're not the first and certainly won't be the last to do so.

Prior to this season, would you have said that the Phillies, as an organization, consistently do what is necessary to compete for the World Series? I don't think many of us would have. That's really all I'm saying.

For a long time statements like "the way the Phillies do things" have been shorthand for "they are stupid and will never win until they get new leadership." Sure, before this season lots of fans said that the Phillies organization didn't do the things necessary to win a World Series. It reminds me of the way that some said that the core of the team will never win. It's a very lazy way of offering a criticism because it can't be proven wrong until they win. Well, now they have won and the same thing still shows up.

Yes the Phillies do stupid things that deserve criticism. So do all of the other teams. For now, the other teams are wishing they made more of the types of decisions the Phillies made. They are doing plenty of things right and it makes no sense anymore to dismiss them as an organization in this casual way. This isn't some fluke year where a bunch of guys had career years out of nowhere. This is a very good team from top to bottom and should be good for years. They haven't had a losing season in 6 years.

Promoting Amaro might be a bad move but it's a little annoying to read the same old criticisms phrased the same old poor-me-I'm-a-Phillies-fan way. Labeling a move "the way the Phillies do things" should now be a compliment rather than an insult.

arbuckle wouldn't work for amaro

Amaro also is expected to make at least two front-office hirings. According to sources, John Green, Dave Hollins and Brian Graham are potential candidates.

Green is the son of Phillies executive Dallas Green and recently was let go after working 10 years for Pittsburgh as a scout and special GM assistant.

oh christ

Based on results, (wins per dollar) which teams are run better than the Phils? The Red Sox. OK. Who else? Bargain basement Rays? Marlins? Both those teams had decent results for hardly any money. Next on the list would I guess be Brewers. But really, I think the Phillies are run better than the Dodgers. And, sure, the Braves will probably get their act together again and challenge. Maybe. Cubs spend a lot of money and make the post season.

so much for shedding that cronyism label

phdave wrote:

Woody wrote:I'll put it this way: In some respects, I believe the Phillies happened to win a World Series in spite of themselves. Of course they're not the first and certainly won't be the last to do so.

Prior to this season, would you have said that the Phillies, as an organization, consistently do what is necessary to compete for the World Series? I don't think many of us would have. That's really all I'm saying.

For a long time statements like "the way the Phillies do things" have been shorthand for "they are stupid and will never win until they get new leadership." Sure, before this season lots of fans said that the Phillies organization didn't do the things necessary to win a World Series. It reminds me of the way that some said that the core of the team will never win. It's a very lazy way of offering a criticism because it can't be proven wrong until they win. Well, now they have won and the same thing still shows up.

Yes the Phillies do stupid things that deserve criticism. So do all of the other teams. For now, the other teams are wishing they made more of the types of decisions the Phillies made. They are doing plenty of things right and it makes no sense anymore to dismiss them as an organization in this casual way. This isn't some fluke year where a bunch of guys had career years out of nowhere. This is a very good team from top to bottom and should be good for years. They haven't had a losing season in 6 years.

Promoting Amaro might be a bad move but it's a little annoying to read the same old criticisms phrased the same old poor-me-I'm-a-Phillies-fan way. Labeling a move "the way the Phillies do things" should now be a compliment rather than an insult.

You are way over-stating it. you are doing the ends-justify-the-means. I would still take the Birds organization of the last 15 years over the Phils, because overall -- they have made smarter decisions and been more competitive. The Phils got the brass ring, and in large part to young stars they had on the farm.

The same Howard who was blocked because of Thome. Utley blocked because of Polanco. You say no losing record in 6 seasons and I say, they were underachievers until this year. We might have 2 even 3 WS appearances if they did things better.

Cholly is a lovable old baseball guy, who has some good ideas about hitting and seems to be liked. But as a tactician -- an X's and O's guy... he's been proven to cost games.

One WS Championship doesn't re-write 25 years of history showing certain phenomena over n over.

The team has good problems now. Why is Amaro promoted? Because he's their guy. Not because he is necessarily the best man for the job.

I hate ragggin within a week of the big celebration -- and I'm still hopeful that this team will remain talented to keep winning despite the org, but I have ZERO confidence in the org overall, and believe they make decisions that are often nepatistic and old-fashioned and would better benefit from some outside blood and new fangled thinking.

With some smarts, by 2010, we won't be saddled with any more old stale contracts to big time under-performers. Given the corp/nucleus of talent, they don't have to get a lot of new players. So hopefully, they will take care of Ryan and Hamels and not botch it from a PR standpoint -- and continue to allow this team to field a good ballclub on the field. They still need to address starting pitching, LF, 3B, etc... don't hold Marson back because Chooch had a hot WS, etc...

The Phils org has earned the pereception many of us have, and I will be slow to back-off. If they repeat or stay in the play-offs 3 of the next 4, then I might believe in Amaro and Monty.

It has always concerned me how local-yokel they are about things --

Monty controls the budget
Amaro controls personnel

Not my two favorite guys on either of those fronts.

Jesus Christ. Anyone who worked closely either in scouting or in the front office for Pittsburgh over the last ten years obviously doesn't know much of anything. I tried my best to put a happy face on all this. I am now set to eternal frown

Yeh, I look at this championship as a tribute to the Phils' young stars (and Phillies scouting because they signed those stars) more than anything else. The brass filled in around these guys with very mixed success, but they got hot at the right time. So I tip my hat to the organization as a whole, but I see no reason to think the front office will make the right trade/FA decisions to keep us at or near the top. A few more signings like Jenkins and Eaton and we'll slide down pretty quickly. I do think, however, they did a very good job with the cheap signings, something Gillick seems to do well.

Randy Miller seems like just the kind of knob that would get along swimmingly with a knob like Amaro

phdave wrote:Promoting Amaro might be a bad move but it's a little annoying to read the same old criticisms phrased the same old poor-me-I'm-a-Phillies-fan way.

Truth

stevemc wrote:

Woody wrote: Which might not necessarily be the worst of scenarios. Hellloooooo Pete Orr!!!!

If we are looking for bargains, how about "Hello Kevin Mench"? Gargano mentioned today that Mench might be a RH bat they'd look at. He'd be cheap, has (except for last year) terrific splits against LHP and he'd love to play in Philly.

Mench looks finished to me. It's a never a good sign when you fail to do well the only thing you ever did well. In his case, it was hitting lefthanded pitching. He's really quite possibly a right handed Jenkins at this point

Philly the Kid wrote:You are way over-stating it. you are doing the ends-justify-the-means. I would still take the Birds organization of the last 15 years over the Phils, because overall -- they have made smarter decisions and been more competitive. The Phils got the brass ring, and in large part to young stars they had on the farm.

Which they don't credit for? Maybe three years ago, I'd agree with you but last I checked the Phillies won like 5 days ago, and for the Eagles it's been 47 years.

TenuredVulture wrote:Amaro means consistency. The general plan is this:

1. Work within a budget.
2. Most players will be developed in the system. Free agency will be used to fill in any gaps, with rare high impact signings. Whenever possible, fill gaps through trades rather than free agency. Instead, financial resources will be used to sign current players in their prime.
3. The goal is to build a consistent winner--88-92 wins a year, this will mean that every year presents the possibility of post-season play.

It's easy to criticize the Phillies and their approach, but for the time being, they're going to stick with what works.

I like that approach. My fear is Amaro will shoot the works on the big club in 2009 for a splashy personal debut and this will cost us a bad draft plus the trading of most of Marson/Donald/Carrasco/Carpenter/Golson. Well, actually I don't fear losing Golson, but you get the idea.

I wonder if he really has the opportunity to do that, though? I doubt they'd outbid the field for Manny and there aren't many other sexy names out there. I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt that he won't empty the farm for a random star who doesn't fit.

I don't think he'll empty the farm. I'm more concerned the farm will slowly empty itself without Arbunkle and his scouts.


And Pitt's new ownership looks like they may know what they're doing. The fact that Green was cast aside makes me think he's probably worthless, so I hope he doesn't come our way.