lethal wrote:Radano and Lauber addressed the issue on their webcast.

what did they say? i can't get sound right now.

MattS wrote:

lethal wrote:Radano and Lauber addressed the issue on their webcast.

what did they say? i can't get sound right now.

Radano: How about in respect to the pitching, I was asked this question and I'll ask Charlie and Dubee later. Due to his last 2 starts, 2 struggles for Kyle Kendrick. You have an off day. Do you skip Kyle Kendrick, maybe give him a mental breather at this time of the year. Give an extra start for Cole Hamels and get Cole Hamels against the Mets next week, which is the oddity of the year. The Phillies have desperately tried not to get Hamels against the Mets and I don't understand why.

Lauber: I think until now, they really haven't distinguished Mets games from every other game. To them, they all count the same. Now I think that's got to change a little bit. If you can get Hamels against the Mets, I think you ought to do it. I also think up until this point, they've been very careful about not overworking Hamels. He's going to probably throw more innings than he ever has in his career. In fact, he certainly will unless he gets injured. They want to be careful about that. Jamie Moyer has pitched very very well, but he's still 45 years old. I think every chance they get, they want to keep him on regular rest. If they get a chance to get him an extra day, they'll take it. But what I think with Kendrick is I think he's on a very short leash or he should be. [Some discussion about Happ and Benson and maybe replacing Kendrick for a turn taking into account the matchups.]

Well, if you're going to replace Kendrick (and you should), it definitely should not be Happ...making another spot start against NYM.

bring up knapp

I actually don't think it's a terrible idea in certain, unique situations to bring up a really young live wire from the very low minors. You get an obvious competitive advantage in the other team not having advanced scouting reports and there'd probably be some psychological effects at play with the opponent pressing feeling like they should be hitting a young guy.

That said, I would not call up Knapp (yet)

keep me updated karn

Stretch out Drabek

http://www.delawareonline.com/blogs/phillies.html

stupid mother fuckers! "more rest". give him rest later in the season. there are AMPLE opportunities.

to further add to my rant, i hate that they're so stupid as to declare that they are concerned about hamels' innings total. he will start 7 games between now and the end of the season either way. it has absolutely no effect on his innings total.

and the most annoying thing about all of this is that they stupidly changed their rotation twice in july such that he missed the mets and the first time was in the name of adding an extra game before the break and the other was to limit his number his starts a couple weeks later after break ended.

Another possibility that would still accomplish the goal of giving Cole a bunch of rest.

Pitch Kendrick Friday, Blanton Saturday, Myers Sunday, Moyer Monday.

Then start Hamels Tuesday and he still will get seven more starts this year, just like he would if he starts Saturday. And no one goes on short rest, and Cole gets extra rest.

Maybe Manuel and Dubee are on the Mets payroll. That would explain a lot

Looks like Manuel might be in support, but Dubee is opposed.

Per Lauber:

Phillies manager Charlie Manuel is intrigued by the idea of moving his pitching order around so that staff ace Cole Hamels would take the mound against the New York Mets in a two-game series next Tuesday and Wednesday.

However, he was noncommittal before the Phillies took on the Nationals on Wednesday night, even though his team trailed the Mets by 11¼2 games in the National League East.

"I think about things like that and there are some things that we'll talk about," Manuel said.

"If we can do something to help us win a game, then I think that's what it's all about."

Pitching coach Rich Dubee seemed to be against moving the staff around.

"It's not going to happen," Dubee said.

He pointed to the fact that Hamels currently leads the National League with 181 2¼3 innings pitched.

Dubee doesn't want to take any chances that a change in routine might hurt Hamels, who was placed on the 15-day disabled list on Aug. 22 last year due to a mild left elbow sprain.

Manuel can understand Dubee's concern, but he didn't rule out moving some pieces around.

"We've got a lot of things to talk about," he said. "Believe me."

lethal wrote:Looks like Manuel might be in support, but Dubee is opposed.

However, he was noncommittal before the Phillies took on the Nationals on Wednesday night, even though his team trailed the Mets by 11¼2 games in the National League East.

Wow, that's um... impressive?

The way Hamels is going, he's probably due for Tommy John next year anyway, so you might as well squeeze him for all he's worth

If you're a fan of the Rule of 30 (and you know I am), you know it applies to those 25 and under. Cole, of course, is only 24. It applies!!!

2003: Age 19: 101 IP
2004: Age 20: 16 IP [hurt]
2005: Age 21: 35 IP [hurt]
2006: Age 22: 181.1 IP [1 DL trip]
2007: Age 23: 183.1 IP [1 DL trip]
2008: Age 24: 181.1 IP so far

He's going to break the Rule of 30 for a 2nd time. Promising.

MattS wrote:to further add to my rant, i hate that they're so stupid as to declare that they are concerned about hamels' innings total. he will start 7 games between now and the end of the season either way. it has absolutely no effect on his innings total.

Are the reporters smart enough to...

follow up with that point/question?

or do we have to e-mail them again

FTN wrote:If you're a fan of the Rule of 30 (and you know I am), you know it applies to those 25 and under. Cole, of course, is only 24. It applies!!!

2003: Age 19: 101 IP
2004: Age 20: 16 IP [hurt]
2005: Age 21: 35 IP [hurt]
2006: Age 22: 181.1 IP [1 DL trip]
2007: Age 23: 183.1 IP [1 DL trip]
2008: Age 24: 181.1 IP so far

He's going to break the Rule of 30 for a 2nd time. Promising.

agreed that there is concern. since he starts 7 games more this season either way, it shouldn't have an effect. unless of course it helps it makes the playoffs which could definitely add to his totals.

Grotewold wrote:

MattS wrote:to further add to my rant, i hate that they're so stupid as to declare that they are concerned about hamels' innings total. he will start 7 games between now and the end of the season either way. it has absolutely no effect on his innings total.

Are the reporters smart enough to...

follow up with that point/question?

or do we have to e-mail them again

i posted it on murphy's and lauber's blogs. everyone bombard them! if nothing else, if they switch, i'll a counter-argument when my wife reminds me not to get too worked up and that i have no control over these games

MattS wrote:if nothing else, if they switch, i'll a counter-argument when my wife reminds me not to get too worked up and that i have no control over these games

lethal wrote:Looks like Manuel might be in support, but Dubee is opposed.

Per Lauber:

Phillies manager Charlie Manuel is intrigued by the idea of moving his pitching order around so that staff ace Cole Hamels would take the mound against the New York Mets in a two-game series next Tuesday and Wednesday.

zOMG! Pitch him Tuesday AND Wednesday :?:

I agree that the rule of 30 seems to have a strong correlation to young pitcher arm woes. However, what is the alternative?

Hamels is an ace pitcher. He has pitched extremely well this year. He has also been one of the most efficient pitchers in the league. As a result, he goes deep into most of his starts.

So what should the Phils have done? Limit him to 5 or 6 innings per start? Skip some of his starts? DL him for a while tokeep his innings down?

There have been a few times this year when he may have been better served by not going out for an inning. But that would have him at maybe 170 + innings and he would still zoom past the rule of 30. And he won't be shut down for the playoffs.

So really, what could or should the Phils have done this season?

Last year Lincecum pitched 178 innings it looks like. He is at 169.7 right now. He will most likely go past the rule of 30 and the Giants aren't going anywhere. C, C. Sabathia went from 146 IP as a 19 year old to 186 at the age of 20. Brandon Webb went from 159 IP as a 23 year old to 198 at 24. It looks like Carlos Zambrano jumped from 117 IP to 230 IP from age 21 to age 22.

I'm thinking young ace pitchers are going to break the rule of 30 a lot. The are counted on to pitch and they pitch well and they go deep into a lot of games. I don't see where a manager is going to limit his ace pitcher in the heat of a race all that much.

I don't dismiss the rule of 30 as something that could be very much a valid thing. I just don't see young aces not breaking it at some point before they are 25.

There are also so many other variables that have an effect on a pitcher's health. The number of innings and pitches thrown before the guy turns pro is one. Hamels threw very few innings as a very young guy due to many injuries -- even in high school I think. That may end up being a positive. Or it might mean an arm blow up is inevitable.