I like to read Paul Brians' Common Errors in English to kill time and receive answers.

phatj wrote:

Monkeyboy wrote:Three things:

1) What's a serial comma?

2) How would you write, "in their mind's eyes?" If, for example, the sentence was, "Hitters wish to fulfill whatever statistical goals they have in their minds' eyes," would it be..

their minds' eye
their minds' eyes
their mind's eyes
their mind's eye

3) What is the plural of mac and cheese? As in, "I need two orders of mac and cheese."


I'm mostly interested in the second question, but figured I'd ask the other two while I'm at it.

Thanks in advance, grammar nerds.

1. The serial comma follows the second-to-last item in a list, e.g. "Dogs, cats, and fish are common pets." Many prefer to omit the comma, e.g. "Dogs, cats and fish are common pets."

2. Minds' is the correct plural possessive form, and eyes is the plural form, so "minds' eyes" is correct.

3. Good question. If you were writing it and worried about grammar, I'd go with "two orders of mac and cheese". If you're giving an order to the kitchen, who cares about perfect grammar? "Two mac and cheeses" probably gets your intent across easier.

Cool, thanks. I had it narrowed down to "minds' eye" and "minds' eyes," but couldn't decide which sounded best.

And that's what I figured about mac and cheese. In fact, when I originally wrote the sentence, I automatically wrote "two orders of mac and cheese," which I then had to change to get my point across. But sometimes I say two macs and cheeses because that sounds ok in my head, though it doesn't sound right if I say the whole words, macaronis and cheeses. It's a tough one.

"Macaroni and cheese" is a proper name for a full dish, I'd say. Plural would be "Macaroni and cheeses" I guess, even if it sounds awkward, but I agree that the "two orders of..." is a great escape hatch.

Bakestar wrote:"Macaroni and cheese" is a proper name for a full dish, I'd say. Plural would be "Macaroni and cheeses" I guess, even if it sounds awkward, but I agree that the "two orders of..." is a great escape hatch.

I think of it like ordering two french fries.

Ramon Gris wrote:

Bakestar wrote:"Macaroni and cheese" is a proper name for a full dish, I'd say. Plural would be "Macaroni and cheeses" I guess, even if it sounds awkward, but I agree that the "two orders of..." is a great escape hatch.

I think of it like ordering two french fries.

That one has always bugged me.

Macs and cheese.

"Gimme two macs and cheese there bub."

That there is the correct English pluralization. Just like Sergeants Major.

Both may be right but they're not alike.

Well I just made it up anyway so I don't care if they're alike or not.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Isn't that a fun phrase? Much better than some of the alternatives (usually involving anatomically difficult propositions).

Yeah, it's pretty good.

Two Millers Lite, please.

I think it's all very idiomatic. Two coffees, two fries. It reminds of the french idiom which uses "des" as an equivalent of some before ordering things of a non-specific quantity. So, in France, you could say deux ordres des frites," or if you want just one order, it would be des frites.

Unlike French and Spanish, however, English is largely unregulated. The general rule is "acceptable" or "common" usage. There's no English Academy to tell us what good English is. Rather, we have self-appointed grammar guardians.

That's why English probably has far more words than other languages. We freely borrow words like schadenfreude if there's no real English equivalent. It's also why English spelling is so difficult.

Trent Steele wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:I have pretty much have no idea what the difference is between affect and effect. I mean, I can usually figure it out, but to be safe, I almost always use the word influence if I can to avoid confusion.

As a general rule - affect = verb; effect = not a verb

Unless, of course, he is effecting change.

My girlfriend has trouble with when to use the work "too" as opposed to "to." I told her that if you would use the word "also," then you would use the word "too." She took that to mean that the only times you use "too" is when you could substitute it for "also." One day I received a picture with a caption of "they are having to much fun" and I knew that I had been a poor teacher there.

Any tips for a shortcut on how to remember when to use "too?" I just know in my head when to use it, so I can't figure out a way to teach it.

I don't like it when people use "try and" instead of "try to". Like, "I'm going to try and get to the store today" rather than "I'm going to try to get to the store today".

Slowhand wrote:I don't like it when people use "try and" instead of "try to". Like, "I'm going to try and get to the store today" rather than "I'm going to try to get to the store today".

I don't change it to an "and," but I do drop the phrase "to be" sometimes. So I often say, "the dishes need cleaned." instead of "the dishes need to be cleaned." I think it's a PA Dutch thing.

lethal wrote:

Trent Steele wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:I have pretty much have no idea what the difference is between affect and effect. I mean, I can usually figure it out, but to be safe, I almost always use the word influence if I can to avoid confusion.

As a general rule - affect = verb; effect = not a verb

Unless, of course, he is effecting change.

My girlfriend has trouble with when to use the work "too" as opposed to "to." I told her that if you would use the word "also," then you would use the word "too." She took that to mean that the only times you use "too" is when you could substitute it for "also." One day I received a picture with a caption of "they are having to much fun" and I knew that I had been a poor teacher there.

Any tips for a shortcut on how to remember when to use "too?" I just know in my head when to use it, so I can't figure out a way to teach it.

Instead of just using it whenever "also" can be used, add whenever "excessive" can be used. Then she only needs to remember two synonyms instead of just one.

Slowhand wrote:I don't like it when people use "try and" instead of "try to". Like, "I'm going to try and get to the store today" rather than "I'm going to try to get to the store today".

I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It is possible the person is going to both try to and actually go to the store. It is possible he or she will fail at his or her intended task.

Monkeyboy wrote:

Slowhand wrote:I don't like it when people use "try and" instead of "try to". Like, "I'm going to try and get to the store today" rather than "I'm going to try to get to the store today".

I don't change it to an "and," but I do drop the phrase "to be" sometimes. So I often say, "the dishes need cleaned." instead of "the dishes need to be cleaned." I think it's a PA Dutch thing.

Sort of like shortening "all gone" to "all".

"The milk is all."

My favorite is dropping the "s" at the end of words when required, and adding them when they are not.

"We could go to Burger Kings, or we could go to McDonald."

"Stop by the Acmes or Geunardi"

"If you can't get it at Blockbusters try Best Buys or Wegman and if all else fails go to Pathmarks"

I drive around reading signs like this out-loud, never ceases to crack me up.

i like "skrimps"

VoxOrion wrote:My favorite is dropping the "s" at the end of words when required, and adding them when they are not.

"We could go to Burger Kings, or we could go to McDonald."

"Stop by the Acmes or Geunardi"

"If you can't get it at Blockbusters try Best Buys or Wegman and if all else fails go to Pathmarks"

I drive around reading signs like this out-loud, never ceases to crack me up.