JFLNYC wrote:

JUburton wrote:

JFLNYC wrote:

Wolfgang622 wrote:So enthusiasm does have a part to play, and enthusiasm derives from personality, newness, but also policy. This is true of Trump: what made him popular isn't some ineffable sense of his charm or his brashness, but his very concrete qualities of saying racist things that people are thinking and making policy proposals that get to that anger, like "The Wall" that "Mexico will pay for."

* * *

All that says Elizabeth Warren to me.

I have no illusions about changing your views, nor those of other young progressives. But certainly you acknowledge that, among Democratic voters, as of right now your views are in a distinct minority, right?

You keep saying this, but it's just not true.

1. Votes for a candidate are not always good proxies for votes on your position choices, due to things like candidate personality, thoughts on 'electability' etc. You can find this in data and anecdotally with all of the 'I don't love Biden but I think he's the best to beat trump' takes you hear.
2a. According to this one (cherry picking) poll, 81% of Democrats favor a national health plan, 91% favor allowing anyone to buy into Medicare. https://www.kff.org/health-reform/poll- ... uary-2019/
2b. Democrats overwhelmingly support (the admittedly vague concept) of a Green New Deal (90% ish): https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/ar ... al-deepens , https://www.dataforprogress.org/the-gre ... is-popular
2c. You can do the same for taxing the rich more, wealth taxes etc.

Maybe I wasn't as clear as I could have been. Supporters of Warren are in the distinct minority right now. That may not mean they oppose her policies but, at least as of this moment, those policies are not carrying the day for her. If we can't agree that those are facts, we can't agree on anything.

Every supporter is a minority. That's what happens where there are 10 candidates. Even biden supporters are in a minority.

Wolfgang622 wrote:This is to say that, like most Gen-Xers, I know and understand your annoyance with "young progressives." We Gen-Xers are generally more lefty than our parents, but not so strident as our younger millennial counterparts (as one might expect given the difference in our ages).

To the extent I haven't made it clear previously I'll try to do so here: I admire and agree with the outrage of young progressives and believe in most policy ideas put forward by Warren and Sanders. For many years I was disheartened by what I thought was the death of outrage in America. I'm very heartened to see it return. I voted for Bernie in the Florida primary in 2016. In fact, on some issues I may be to the left of even the young progressives.

I also believe that all younger adults (progressive or otherwise) have every right to be outraged at the world older generations have created over the last 50 years from everything from environmental disasters to student indebtedness (aka indentured servitude) to healthcare availability and cost, etc. In more normal times these would be the sort of issues which would be paramount in an upcoming election. Unfortunately (and this is what Jill Biden was alluding to) in this election we face an existential threat. As important as all the other policy issues are (and they're vitally important) nothing can be done unless and until Dems take back the White House.

All of which leads straight to the question of which candidate is most likely to beat Trump. It's pointless to continue to argue about it. Right now Biden leads in the polls but the primaries will tell us who our candidate is and no one will ever know for sure which candidate will/would have fared best.

As for me, I'm #BlueNoMatterWho. Any Dem who isn't will likely get what they deserve.

I'm GenX and firmly with J-Fly here. I'm about as consistent a democratic voter as you can find. In 30 years I've voted for 3 Republicans and 2 of them I knew personally.

I like Warren just fine. On a number of issues I prefer her as a candidate but the timing is wrong.

First, I mentioned a Gallup poll awhile back. Only 94% responded that they'd vote for a woman (IIRC 97% would vote for a minority). And that's only the one's willing to admit it they wouldn't vote for a woman. That's a huge give away.

Mostly, I don't want to win just in 2020. We need sustainable victory to build on for a generation. The path to that is small steps.

Pick your own analogy but mine is building a fire. We have an ember from rubbing sticks together. Next is tinder (SWIPE RIGHT!) and then kindling before you can throw logs on and call it a fire. It's easy to smother and be left in the cold if you go too fast at any step.

TenuredVulture wrote:The thing that pisses me off the most right now though is that the DNC is fucking refusing to include climate change on the agenda. One of the worst ideas out there is that actually proposing to do something about climate change makes you part of some radical left.

I really think this is an issue the Democrats can hammer the shit out of Republicans with.

I get what your saying but I think it's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.

Make your agenda strong enough to satisfy the Twitter Dems, you risk alarming the more moderate and possible swing votes. Make it safe enough, you risk de-energizing the ultra progressive.

jerseyhoya wrote:

CFP wrote:David Koch died

Wisely passing away before a Dem wins the White House and boosts the death tax

Not as good of foresight as George Steinbrenner though.

jamiethekiller wrote:If booker isn't going to be a pres nom then every pres candidate should be lining up to get booker as VP

Having worked in Newark, I know things about him I can't stand, unfortunately. I know he presents well on TV.

Uncle Milty wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:The thing that pisses me off the most right now though is that the DNC is fucking refusing to include climate change on the agenda. One of the worst ideas out there is that actually proposing to do something about climate change makes you part of some radical left.

I really think this is an issue the Democrats can hammer the shit out of Republicans with.

I get what your saying but I think it's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.

Make your agenda strong enough to satisfy the Twitter Dems, you risk alarming the more moderate and possible swing votes. Make it safe enough, you risk de-energizing the ultra progressive.

moderate swing voters > de-energizing ultra progressives

trump hatred will bring them out.

traderdave wrote:@realDonaldTrump
As usual, the Fed did NOTHING! It is incredible that they can “speak” without knowing or asking what I am doing, which will be announced shortly. We have a very strong dollar and a very weak Fed. I will work “brilliantly” with both, and the U.S. will do great...
10:57 AM · Aug 23, 2019·Twitter for iPhone

@realDonaldTrump
....My only question is, who is our bigger enemy, Jay Powell or Chairman Xi?
10:57 AM · Aug 23, 2019·Twitter for iPhone

Keep in mind that this is the same guy who cancelled a trip to Denmark because he was upset that its PM used the word "absurd" when dismissing the idea of the US buying Greenland.

Why does he hate his own appointees so much if he only hires the best people?

It's not easy being The Chosen One.

Uncle Milty wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:The thing that pisses me off the most right now though is that the DNC is fucking refusing to include climate change on the agenda. One of the worst ideas out there is that actually proposing to do something about climate change makes you part of some radical left.

I really think this is an issue the Democrats can hammer the shit out of Republicans with.

I get what your saying but I think it's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.

Make your agenda strong enough to satisfy the Twitter Dems, you risk alarming the more moderate and possible swing votes. Make it safe enough, you risk de-energizing the ultra progressive.

Honestly, even Biden has more or less signed on to the basic contours of the Green New Deal. And that's what I'm getting at. Pretty much all the Dems are on the same page, and I think a "debate" on the topic could be an opportunity to start hammering the Republicans. For rhetorical purposes, I'd add in Trump's anti-vax sympathies, and draw the connection between anti-vax and AGW denial.

da_bad_ass wrote:

JUburton wrote:also have you sent td11 his cheque

he owes a 1000 dollar cheque to each of td11, me, tomatopie, PTOITWCFTPP, pacino uncle milty, thephan, phred, werthless, barry jive, shadow, and jflnyc. and thats only those who have pm'd me. pay up brantt.

Yeah pay me Brantt

Wow. Trump's tweet regarding China and the Fed was followed within literal seconds by the market taking a dive. Market had been in positive territory until just before 11, and is now down about 500.

well he did order companies to find alternatives to dealing with China, so whatever.

Anyone heard from the imperial president and government overreach crowd? A peep? Anything at all?

RBG treated for a pancreatic tumor...

Hang in there RBG. The fate of the country could literally depend on it!

Get ready for calls for RBG to retire since it was revealed that she completed 3 weeks of radiation treatments.

Don has some options ready: Another white bro that looks like a thumb, or his daughter.

jamiethekiller wrote:If booker isn't going to be a pres nom then every pres candidate should be lining up to get booker as VP

Naw. I think too many people see through the grand-standing, opportunistic bullshit. Let him grandstand where he is.

TenuredVulture wrote:Wow. Trump's tweet regarding China and the Fed was followed within literal seconds by the market taking a dive. Market had been in positive territory until just before 11, and is now down about 500.

Yeah but don't forget that its the Fed, the Dems and the corrupt lamestream media that is sending us toward a recession.

Putin says a Russian first responder died from eating radioactive crabs caught near Fukoshimo, not the nuclear disaster.

Asked by the moderator if the community diversity needed to be addressed, perhaps by attracting foreign-born citizens, [Jean]Cramer said: "My suggestion, recommendation: Keep Marysville a white community as much as possible."

She continued: "Seriously, in other words no foreign-born, no foreign people because of what, in our past, we've experienced it's better to have ... simply American-born. Put it that way and no foreigners. No."

She doubled down when the Port Huron Times Herald asked her to respond to criticism from the town's mayor pro tem, Kathy Hayman, who is from a racially diverse family.

"As long as, how can I put this? What Kathy Hayman doesn't know is that her family is in the wrong," she said. "(A) husband and wife need to be the same race. Same thing with kids. That's how it's been from the beginning of, how can I say, when God created the heaven and the earth. He created Adam and Eve at the same time. But as far as me being against blacks, no I'm not," Cramer is reported as saying.

The times we live in.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/08/23/us/mar ... cnn.com%2F