GOTV for Rep Moz ( (D-BSG) Politics Thread

Re: GOTV for Rep Moz ( (D-BSG) Politics Thread

Postby JFLNYC » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:20:58

TenuredVulture wrote:
Doll Is Mine wrote:Crowleys and Capuanos have gotten complacent because they've never been challenged. It's not enough anymore to just vote the right way. We need real progressive leaders in Congress who can do more: organizing rallies, sparking new movements, motivating young people, getting people involved and registered to vote, etc.

I believe the Democratic party to going in the right direction. It needed to be done.


I agree. A huge problem with the Dems is that their leadership is really too old. Look at some of the most prominent potential Dem candidates for President--they're ancient. Political talent needs to be cultivated and developed, and for lots of reasons, the Dems haven't been doing this enough.

The people who championed Hillary Clinton's candidacy (and basically chased out any viable alternative) don't realize how long ago 1992 really was. And they also don't seem to understand that even in 1992, the Clintons and their supporters were looking back to their own boomer youth, and even though the song was "Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow" that song itself was already a relic of a bygone age.

I've complained before about the how the Occupy movement was a waste--there was a ton of energy, but since it had no direction, strategy, or even vague demands it had no impact whatsoever on actual politics. (It's relevant to note that occupy was 10 years ago!) This new crop of people I think have learned important lessons from those defeats--the opposite lesson the baby boomers in the Democratic Party took away from the political defeats of the 80s by the way--and provide great optimism.


Age: The last bastion of socially acceptable prejudice and discrimination. Would anyone find it acceptable if we said a particular group was “really too black,” or “really too Christian,” or “really too fat” or, for that matter, “really too young?”
Jamie

"A man who tells lies . . . merely hides the truth. But a man who tells half-lies has forgotten where he put it."

JFLNYC
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 34321
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 13:16:48
Location: Location, Location!

Re: GOTV for Rep Moz ( (D-BSG) Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:23:02

perhaps it's better to say that leadership is incompetent; see Chuck Schumer
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

pacino
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 75831
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 18:37:20
Location: Furkin Good

Re: GOTV for Rep Moz ( (D-BSG) Politics Thread

Postby The Dude » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:23:48

i also think it's weird to compare the Occupy movement to current politicians
BSG HOF '25

The Dude
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 30280
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 23:04:37
Location: 250 52nd st

Re: GOTV for Rep Moz ( (D-BSG) Politics Thread

Postby Grotewold » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:25:14

JFLNYC wrote:Age: The last bastion of socially acceptable prejudice and discrimination. Would anyone find it acceptable if we said a particular group was “really too black,” or “really too Christian,” or “really too fat” or, for that matter, “really too young?”


Not to mention Trump is old and Jeb Bush was an early front-runner etc

Grotewold
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 51642
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 09:40:10

Re: GOTV for Rep Moz ( (D-BSG) Politics Thread

Postby JFLNYC » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:27:12

pacino wrote:perhaps it's better to say that leadership is incompetent; see Chuck Schumer


Exactly. Age isn’t the issue. Ruth Bader Ginsburg is old be she’s a rock star.
Jamie

"A man who tells lies . . . merely hides the truth. But a man who tells half-lies has forgotten where he put it."

JFLNYC
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 34321
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 13:16:48
Location: Location, Location!

Re: GOTV for Rep Moz ( (D-BSG) Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:33:40

JFLNYC wrote:
pacino wrote:perhaps it's better to say that leadership is incompetent; see Chuck Schumer


Exactly. Age isn’t the issue. Ruth Bader Ginsburg is old be she’s a rock star.

i'm actually not that in love with some of her opinions or her personal opinions, but that's neither here nor there. Sotomayor is better.

TV meant they have stale leadership. they do. it's time for a change.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

pacino
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 75831
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 18:37:20
Location: Furkin Good

Re: GOTV for Rep Moz ( (D-BSG) Politics Thread

Postby JUburton » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:36:41

pacino wrote:
JFLNYC wrote:
pacino wrote:perhaps it's better to say that leadership is incompetent; see Chuck Schumer


Exactly. Age isn’t the issue. Ruth Bader Ginsburg is old be she’s a rock star.

i'm actually not that in love with some of her opinions or her personal opinions, but that's neither here nor there. Sotomayor is better.

TV meant they have stale leadership. they do. it's time for a change.
Yeah, age is just a lazy proxy for time spent languishing in congress. I don't think anyone actually means (here at least) that old people can't do the job. Look at Warren, Bernie, RBG, etc.

JUburton
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 17132
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 20:49:25
Location: Philly

Re: GOTV for Rep Moz ( (D-BSG) Politics Thread

Postby JFLNYC » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:46:08

pacino wrote:
JFLNYC wrote:
pacino wrote:perhaps it's better to say that leadership is incompetent; see Chuck Schumer


Exactly. Age isn’t the issue. Ruth Bader Ginsburg is old be she’s a rock star.

i'm actually not that in love with some of her opinions or her personal opinions, but that's neither here nor there. Sotomayor is better.

TV meant they have stale leadership. they do. it's time for a change.


TV is a very articulate man. I trust he knows what he’s writing. When you say he meant something other than what he actually said it sounds as though you’re rationalizing prejudicial speech. It sounds a lot like what Republicans say when they try to mansplain hateful things said by Trump.
Jamie

"A man who tells lies . . . merely hides the truth. But a man who tells half-lies has forgotten where he put it."

JFLNYC
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 34321
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 13:16:48
Location: Location, Location!

Re: GOTV for Rep Moz ( (D-BSG) Politics Thread

Postby The Dude » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:57:51

I think that's a good point and that TV meant what he wrote considering it was in large part in response to the Boston congressperson vote. Capuano was being lumped in with people that are like Schumur, when the reality is that you have to hope that Pressley votes as progressively as he did. So it can only be said that his age was the problem, as his voting record speaks for itself. There's no guarantee that Pressley is going to be this movement starter like it's being suggested he wasn't
BSG HOF '25

The Dude
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 30280
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 23:04:37
Location: 250 52nd st

Re: GOTV for Rep Moz ( (D-BSG) Politics Thread

Postby thephan » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:10:57

news dump:

@realDonaldTrump

Isn’t it a shame that someone can write an article or book, totally make up stories and form a picture of a person that is literally the exact opposite of the fact, and get away with it without retribution or cost. Don’t know why Washington politicians don’t change libel laws?

Cruz campaign selectively, and heavily edited O'Rourk Q&A about protesting the conflate it into something offensive.
yawn

thephan
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 18749
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 15:25:25
Location: LOCKDOWN

Re: GOTV for Rep Moz ( (D-BSG) Politics Thread

Postby Werthless » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:15:06

Libel laws protect the truth, and those that print truth. What needs to be changed, Mr. President?

Werthless
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 12968
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 16:07:07

Re: GOTV for Rep Moz ( (D-BSG) Politics Thread

Postby Phred » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:17:34

I'm pretty sure that there are tapes that back up what was written in the book. I wonder if they will be released since, I am guessing that those that spoke did so on the condition of anonymity.
Phred
Dropped Anchor
Dropped Anchor
 
Posts: 5349
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 16:41:59

Re: GOTV for Rep Moz ( (D-BSG) Politics Thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:18:22

JFLNYC wrote:Age: The last bastion of socially acceptable prejudice and discrimination. Would anyone find it acceptable if we said a particular group was “really too black,” or “really too Christian,” or “really too fat” or, for that matter, “really too young?”

Would anyone blink at GOP leadership being called too white or too male? (which it is, while Dem leadership is too old)

jerseyhoya
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 97408
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 21:56:17

Re: GOTV for Rep Moz ( (D-BSG) Politics Thread

Postby traderdave » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:18:41

thephan wrote:news dump:

@realDonaldTrump

Isn’t it a shame that someone can write an article or book, totally make up stories and form a picture of a person that is literally the exact opposite of the fact, and get away with it without retribution or cost. Don’t know why Washington politicians don’t change libel laws?

Cruz campaign selectively, and heavily edited O'Rourk Q&A about protesting the conflate it into something offensive.


I would agree that it is a shame except that everything Trump does and/or says supports the picture that is formed by the articles and books.

traderdave
Dropped Anchor
Dropped Anchor
 
Posts: 8451
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 18:44:01
Location: Here

Re: GOTV for Rep Moz ( (D-BSG) Politics Thread

Postby pacino » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:22:31

Werthless wrote:Libel laws protect the truth, and those that print truth. What needs to be changed, Mr. President?

the truth
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

pacino
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 75831
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 18:37:20
Location: Furkin Good

Re: GOTV for Rep Moz ( (D-BSG) Politics Thread

Postby TenuredVulture » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:03:57

JFLNYC wrote:
TenuredVulture wrote:
Doll Is Mine wrote:Crowleys and Capuanos have gotten complacent because they've never been challenged. It's not enough anymore to just vote the right way. We need real progressive leaders in Congress who can do more: organizing rallies, sparking new movements, motivating young people, getting people involved and registered to vote, etc.

I believe the Democratic party to going in the right direction. It needed to be done.


I agree. A huge problem with the Dems is that their leadership is really too old. Look at some of the most prominent potential Dem candidates for President--they're ancient. Political talent needs to be cultivated and developed, and for lots of reasons, the Dems haven't been doing this enough.

The people who championed Hillary Clinton's candidacy (and basically chased out any viable alternative) don't realize how long ago 1992 really was. And they also don't seem to understand that even in 1992, the Clintons and their supporters were looking back to their own boomer youth, and even though the song was "Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow" that song itself was already a relic of a bygone age.

I've complained before about the how the Occupy movement was a waste--there was a ton of energy, but since it had no direction, strategy, or even vague demands it had no impact whatsoever on actual politics. (It's relevant to note that occupy was 10 years ago!) This new crop of people I think have learned important lessons from those defeats--the opposite lesson the baby boomers in the Democratic Party took away from the political defeats of the 80s by the way--and provide great optimism.


Age: The last bastion of socially acceptable prejudice and discrimination. Would anyone find it acceptable if we said a particular group was “really too black,” or “really too Christian,” or “really too fat” or, for that matter, “really too young?”


I think age is relevant to the ability to do the job in ways that gender and race are not. (And, in some ways, it might be difficult for me to support an evangelical Christians for all sorts of reasons.) But specifically in this context, there's a real parallel to many complaints made about how baseball teams manage their rosters--where old veterans get to play every day, preventing young players from developing.

And yeah, I don't care how old Schumer is, he's a dope.
Be Bold!

TenuredVulture
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
 
Posts: 53243
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 00:16:10
Location: Magnolia, AR

Re: GOTV for Rep Moz ( (D-BSG) Politics Thread

Postby JFLNYC » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:28:34

Double post.
Last edited by JFLNYC on Wed Sep 05, 2018 16:17:11, edited 1 time in total.
Jamie

"A man who tells lies . . . merely hides the truth. But a man who tells half-lies has forgotten where he put it."

JFLNYC
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 34321
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 13:16:48
Location: Location, Location!

Re: GOTV for Rep Moz ( (D-BSG) Politics Thread

Postby JFLNYC » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:30:14

JFLNYC wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
JFLNYC wrote:Age: The last bastion of socially acceptable prejudice and discrimination. Would anyone find it acceptable if we said a particular group was “really too black,” or “really too Christian,” or “really too fat” or, for that matter, “really too young?”

Would anyone blink at GOP leadership being called too white or too male? (which it is, while Dem leadership is too old)


Very different. You're not questioning the individual competence of any member of GOP leadership because he's white or male. You're questioning the lack of diversity ("too white or too male") of the group. In the accusation of "too old," TV questions individual competence based upon a questionable characteristic: age (see TV's doubling down on the issue below where he says: "age is relevant to the ability to do the job"). You're not saying being white or male "is relevant to the ability to do the job."

It is really offensive to question one's "ability to do the job" based on age. Should we question generally the ability of younger Dems because of their youth and inexperience? After all, the law makes as many or more distinctions based on lack of age (license to drive, right to vote, etc.) than it does for old age.

I would have thought that at least in this forum we had reached the point of trying to judge all people as individuals without regards to any general characteristics whether race, gender, religion, age, etc. I'm astounded (and, frankly, more than a little disappointed) that there continues to be a blind spot about age. Maybe it is because of youth and inexperience. :q
Jamie

"A man who tells lies . . . merely hides the truth. But a man who tells half-lies has forgotten where he put it."

JFLNYC
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 34321
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 13:16:48
Location: Location, Location!

Re: GOTV for Rep Moz ( (D-BSG) Politics Thread

Postby The Dude » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:33:28

youre not making a good case for yourself here
BSG HOF '25

The Dude
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 30280
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 23:04:37
Location: 250 52nd st

Re: GOTV for Rep Moz ( (D-BSG) Politics Thread

Postby The Crimson Cyclone » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:44:20

Alex JONES calls RUBIO a "frat boy" and touches Rubio on the shoulder. Rubio tells Jones not to touch him and that he won't be arrested because I'll "take care of you myself."

Video
https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/ ... 11616?s=21
FTN wrote: im a dick towards everyone, you're not special.

The Crimson Cyclone
Dropped Anchor
Dropped Anchor
 
Posts: 9372
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 07:48:14

PreviousNext