Rockinghorse wrote:Was there ever any analysis on whether the Ertz TD ball truly ever hit the ground? I haven't looked frame by frame but it looks like he's clutching it with both hands which would mean he has some leeway to let it graze the turf, right?

isn't this a moot point? He possessed the ball as a runner and the ball crossed the line...dead ball touchdown, right?

Yes if you watch the conversation with the Ref and the replay booth that is the call, he was a runner so nothing else matters. It isn't the Jesse James situation where he wasn't a runner yet.

I agree it's moot, I just never saw a shot where the ball was clearly forced out by hitting the ground. Might have just popped out because of the momentum of Ertz rolling over. I'm gonna get sick of this being compared to Dez, who was stumbling like a drunk as opposed to Ertz doing a controlled dive

heyeaglefn wrote:Yes if you watch the conversation with the Ref and the replay booth that is the call, he was a runner so nothing else matters. It isn't the Jesse James situation where he wasn't a runner yet.

Yup, they specifically called out that he was diving for the end zone (a football move) rather than falling into the end zone.

from multiple viewings i was convinced there was no doubt the ball hit the ground which caused the ball to pop loose

hindsight thought - i wonder how the game would have progressed differently had cooks not been ko'ed.

Could the Patriots have scored more than they did with him out?

heyeaglefn wrote:Could the Patriots have scored more than they did with him out?

was thinking that - i'm trying to recall what point in the 2nd quarter it occurred. the only other times they didn't get TDs was their last two drives, right?

Can't stop watching our entrance to the field

even the white guys look cool

OK, next question for All-22 types...where was Brady throwing on the strip-sack? Didn't look like a panic throw, wonder if the receiver was open?

There is a video of his rb wide open on a swing pass and people saying he should have dumped it off. Not sure about his other wrs.

He had James White out of the backfield but looks like he was waiting for crossing route.

https://twitter.com/bigjimmurray/status ... 4038561792

Of the calls that (some) Patriots fans can't seem to let go, the only one where they have a strong case is the no-call of illegal contact on the final play (but, not pass interference because that's laughable). The others are either correct (Ertz TD) or judgment calls that couldn't reasonably be changed (Clement TD) or called (illegal formation on Philly Special).

Bucky wrote:

Spacey would actually make a pretty good Belichick. Too bad he's a sexual predator. And Spacey had some issues too.

I actually think that's the genius of 'in his final appearance' - could be both of them.

and if we're talking non-calls- there's no doubt that the INT was defensive PI. Had Jeffrey had not been hooked he would've easily made the catch. Go watch the replay.

heyeaglefn wrote:There is a video of his rb wide open on a swing pass and people saying he should have dumped it off. Not sure about his other wrs.

He had James White out of the backfield but looks like he was waiting for crossing route.

https://twitter.com/bigjimmurray/status ... 4038561792

Thanks, that's a good view. I would argue White gains about 7-10 yards and is either tackled or steps out of bounds. Brady was throwing to Gronk (I think) who was covered pretty well but a perfect throw would have dropped in for a 20ish yard gain. Defense was gonna lock it up on that drive either way.

Bucky wrote:and if we're talking non-calls- there's no doubt that the INT was defensive PI. Had Jeffrey had not been hooked he would've easily made the catch. Go watch the replay.

said the same thing. i always say that the receiver has 2 options - 1 > make a legit play for the ball and reduce chance of PI getting called or 2 > try to act it up, increase chance of call being made but basically eliminate any chance of catching ball (flail arms like you're playing soccer)

Illegal contact is never called on Hail Mary passes, nor is PI. You'd have to take out a club and knock the guy out. I think both Clement's TD and the long pass TD to Jeffrey could have been called incomplete, but they weren't, and the video doesn't clearly show loss of control. The PI should have been called on the Jeffrey INT--that was a bad hook on his trailing arm. The refs this year were very reluctant to call anything. There were a couple of clear offensive line holds that they let go, too.