Repealing and Vetoing Our Way Forward (Politics Thread)

Re: Repealing and Vetoing Our Way Forward (Politics Thread)

Unread postby JFLNYC » Mon Mar 30, 2015 23:11:41

Saying GMO's are safe is an oversimplification. No matter how many times someone may say it, we don't know that GMO's are 100% safe for 100% of people. Traditional foods are safe for the vast majority of people, but it's a fact that 2% of adults and 8% of children are allergic to some sort of traditional food. We learned that traditional foods were safe by trial and error and a lot of people died as part of the experiment.

The way that we allow people to make free, informed and healthy choices about what they out into their bodies is by requiring disclosure and that disclosure is a cost of doing business in a well-informed society. If GMO's are labeled people can make an informed choice. If GMO producers are worried that people's irrational fears will drive them away from GMO products, those producers can choose to inform consumers.
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Re: Repealing and Vetoing Our Way Forward (Politics Thread)

Unread postby jerseyhoya » Mon Mar 30, 2015 23:12:46

SK790 wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
JFLNYC wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:It would increase costs unnecessarily

Putting a few more words on an existing label increases costs? That's a reach.

Putting a few words on a label wouldn't be the main driver, though it wouldn't be free. There will be compliance costs borne both by consumers and taxpayers, presumably. A division of some agency will be created to monitor GMO percentages in foods and whatnot. Some companies will choose to sub out the slightly cheaper GMO product for a non-GMO product to avoid the label, which will make that product slightly more costly without improving it. We're not talking thousands of dollars a year per person, but even if it's $10 it's still stupid and unnecessary.

It's also "stupid" and "unnecessary" to have nutrition facts by this dumb logic.

Well, no, because nutrition facts provide useful and relevant information to the consumer.

SK790 wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
JFLNYC wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:and possibly play on unfounded fears.

And possibly informs well-founded fears. Again, you don't know that GMO's are safe.

The fears are not well founded. They're based on cherry picking one or two studies out of thousands and/or superstition.

so like what cigarette execs were saying in the 50s?

I can't even

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Re: Repealing and Vetoing Our Way Forward (Politics Thread)

Unread postby pacino » Mon Mar 30, 2015 23:25:34

Guys, we're going by the SCIENCE. This is what runs our policy. Scientist opinions trump other agenda - driven monied interests.
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Re: Repealing and Vetoing Our Way Forward (Politics Thread)

Unread postby SK790 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 00:47:59

jerseyhoya wrote:
SK790 wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
JFLNYC wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:It would increase costs unnecessarily

Putting a few more words on an existing label increases costs? That's a reach.

Putting a few words on a label wouldn't be the main driver, though it wouldn't be free. There will be compliance costs borne both by consumers and taxpayers, presumably. A division of some agency will be created to monitor GMO percentages in foods and whatnot. Some companies will choose to sub out the slightly cheaper GMO product for a non-GMO product to avoid the label, which will make that product slightly more costly without improving it. We're not talking thousands of dollars a year per person, but even if it's $10 it's still stupid and unnecessary.

It's also "stupid" and "unnecessary" to have nutrition facts by this dumb logic.

Well, no, because nutrition facts provide useful and relevant information to the consumer.

SK790 wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
JFLNYC wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:and possibly play on unfounded fears.

And possibly informs well-founded fears. Again, you don't know that GMO's are safe.

The fears are not well founded. They're based on cherry picking one or two studies out of thousands and/or superstition.

so like what cigarette execs were saying in the 50s?

I can't even

I'm glad you're here to decide what and what is not relevant info for labels to let us know is in our food. Small government hero.
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Re: Repealing and Vetoing Our Way Forward (Politics Thread)

Unread postby Bucky » Tue Mar 31, 2015 00:52:10

The cost of regulatory compliance shouldn't be underestimated. Whereas, voluntarily printing "Non-GMO" on a label involves no such stipulations (unless challenged).

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Re: Repealing and Vetoing Our Way Forward (Politics Thread)

Unread postby swishnicholson » Tue Mar 31, 2015 01:16:04

Bucky wrote:The cost of regulatory compliance shouldn't be underestimated. Whereas, voluntarily printing "Non-GMO" on a label involves no such stipulations (unless challenged).


That's where I'm, at. If there's a perceived health benefit to consuming products that are non-GMO, then by all means let's have producers certifying them as such, even though for me I'd group it in with min non-fat pretzels and caffeine-free ginger ale. And I think there's enough of a perception that those who wished to avoid GMO products would be able to easily do so. But there simply isn't enough science to tag GMO products with an implicit "harmful" label at this time.
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Re: Repealing and Vetoing Our Way Forward (Politics Thread)

Unread postby Doll Is Mine » Tue Mar 31, 2015 01:25:59

:lol:

Republican lawmakers in North Carolina are following in the footsteps of their bigoted peers in Indiana. A bill has been introduced in the North Carolina House and Senate mirroring Indiana’s “religious freedom” bill signed into law by Governor Mike Pence last Thursday. Only North Carolina wants to take it one step further.

Indiana’s draconian law gives business owners the legal right to pick and choose who they want to discriminate against based on their own religion. North Carolina’s law will extend that right to hospitals as well.

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Re: Repealing and Vetoing Our Way Forward (Politics Thread)

Unread postby SK790 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 01:27:25

Fair enough, all the doctors I know make terrible cakes.
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Re: Repealing and Vetoing Our Way Forward (Politics Thread)

Unread postby Phan In Phlorida » Tue Mar 31, 2015 04:13:25

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Re: Repealing and Vetoing Our Way Forward (Politics Thread)

Unread postby Monkeyboy » Tue Mar 31, 2015 07:09:36

JFLNYC wrote:I'm confused. There are many regulations requiring food producers to label their products so that, in a free market, consumers can make an informed choice. Those labeling requirements include both potentially harmful ingredients and benign ingredients. What's the problem with further informing consumers that something for sale is genetically modified so they can make an informed choice based upon the various data?



Because they don't really believe in the free market. What they believe in is companies doing whatever the hell they want with little to no public input or education.

I agree that GMOs are almost certainly safe as a whole, but there may be exceptions and people should have the right to know what they are eating. The Roundup problem just clarifies that the way we go about this is all wrong.
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Re: Repealing and Vetoing Our Way Forward (Politics Thread)

Unread postby Monkeyboy » Tue Mar 31, 2015 07:10:40

Doll Is Mine wrote::lol:

Republican lawmakers in North Carolina are following in the footsteps of their bigoted peers in Indiana. A bill has been introduced in the North Carolina House and Senate mirroring Indiana’s “religious freedom” bill signed into law by Governor Mike Pence last Thursday. Only North Carolina wants to take it one step further.

Indiana’s draconian law gives business owners the legal right to pick and choose who they want to discriminate against based on their own religion. North Carolina’s law will extend that right to hospitals as well.



good thing this is all about cakes and not things that matter.
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Re: Repealing and Vetoing Our Way Forward (Politics Thread)

Unread postby JFLNYC » Tue Mar 31, 2015 07:42:31

GMO's are non-Kosher. Failure to label places a substantial burden on the exercise of religion for those who keep Kosher.
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Re: Repealing and Vetoing Our Way Forward (Politics Thread)

Unread postby slugsrbad » Tue Mar 31, 2015 07:53:50

Doll Is Mine wrote::lol:

Republican lawmakers in North Carolina are following in the footsteps of their bigoted peers in Indiana. A bill has been introduced in the North Carolina House and Senate mirroring Indiana’s “religious freedom” bill signed into law by Governor Mike Pence last Thursday. Only North Carolina wants to take it one step further.

Indiana’s draconian law gives business owners the legal right to pick and choose who they want to discriminate against based on their own religion. North Carolina’s law will extend that right to hospitals as well.


Where are you seeing this? I looked at the bill and I don't see anything that would open it to hospitals. The bill is flawed, and has some language, that if passed, could be troubling, but I don't think it would go that far. Then again, I'm not familiar enough with the rest of North Carolina's laws and case law to know how it interacts with NCGA HB 348.
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Re: Repealing and Vetoing Our Way Forward (Politics Thread)

Unread postby pacino » Tue Mar 31, 2015 08:30:06

This Missouri governor's race is crazy. Something is really, really wrong here:

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — Slightly more than a month after Tom Schweich, Missouri’s auditor and a candidate for governor, took his own life, Spence Jackson, a longtime Republican spokesman who worked for Mr. Schweich, appears to have done the same.
In a statement Monday, the Jefferson City police said officers found Mr. Jackson dead Sunday night in the bedroom of his home in this capital city.

Mr. Jackson had been one of the many Republican players involved in the events surrounding his former boss’s suicide. Mr. Schweich died in late February after shooting himself at his home in suburban St. Louis.
Mr. Schweich’s supporters have argued that a brutal campaign for governor, accompanied by what Mr. Schweich, an Episcopalian, believed to be an anti-Semitic attack against him led by John Hancock, the chairman of the Missouri Republican Party, had contributed to his death.
Mr. Hancock has denied the allegations, but Mr. Jackson — just moments after Mr. Schweich’s funeral last month — was one of the first to call for his resignation as chairman.
The governor’s race had pitted Mr. Schweich against Catherine Hanaway, a St. Louis lawyer who had served as a federal prosecutor and was the first woman to be the speaker of the Missouri House of Representatives. After a monthlong suspension of her campaign, Ms. Hanaway was back on the campaign trail over the weekend, participating in a number of Republican events in southwest Missouri.
Ms. Hanaway’s ties to Mr. Hancock run deep, as do her connections to a Kansas City-based consulting firm that had produced for an outside group a campaign commercial that disparaged Mr. Schweich’s physical appearance. Ms. Hanaway’s campaign is also contracting work to that firm, Axiom Strategies.
In an interview last week, Ms. Hanaway attempted to draw distance between herself and those involved in the negative campaign, but stopped short of calling for Mr. Hancock’s resignation or splitting ways with Axiom.
The death of Mr. Schweich has roiled Republicans here, and a number of other potential candidates have emerged, including John Brunner, a St. Louis businessman and a former candidate for United States Senate, and Eric Greitens, a former member of the Navy SEALs and a best-selling author.
The police in Jefferson City said they had reached out to law enforcement officials in Clayton, Mo., where an investigation had taken place into Mr. Schweich’s death. Captain Shoemaker said the police were “very aware of the political issues” surrounding Mr. Jackson and Mr. Schweich, and said they were issues “we’re clearly interested in.”
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Re: Repealing and Vetoing Our Way Forward (Politics Thread)

Unread postby The Crimson Cyclone » Tue Mar 31, 2015 08:31:02

Doll Is Mine wrote::lol:

Republican lawmakers in North Carolina are following in the footsteps of their bigoted peers in Indiana. A bill has been introduced in the North Carolina House and Senate mirroring Indiana’s “religious freedom” bill signed into law by Governor Mike Pence last Thursday. Only North Carolina wants to take it one step further.

Indiana’s draconian law gives business owners the legal right to pick and choose who they want to discriminate against based on their own religion. North Carolina’s law will extend that right to hospitals as well.


but their governor, to his credit, at least learned from Indiana's mistake and will likely veto it- saying, “What is the problem they’re trying to solve?”
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Re: Repealing and Vetoing Our Way Forward (Politics Thread)

Unread postby SK790 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:38:45

Poor religious bakers are forced to sell cakes to the gays, isn't he paying attention????
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