Sequestering The Night Away - Politics

Re: Sequestering The Night Away - Politics

Postby td11 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:07:02

i'm a little confused, what are you asking about? whether JSTOR has final say over who can download the articles they make available?

i guess JSTOR wanted to drop it and MIT didn't, which is what gave the prosecutors the opening they needed to really pursue this.

Andy Good, Swartz’s initial lawyer, is ­alternately sad and furious.

“The thing that galls me is that I told Heymann the kid was a suicide risk,” Good told me. “His reaction was a standard reaction in that office, not unique to Steve. He said, ‘Fine, we’ll lock him up.’ I’m not saying they made Aaron kill himself. Aaron might have done this anyway. I’m saying they were aware of the risk, and they were heedless.”

Good says the hard-line attitude was not unique to his case, but the facts were. People who steal things usually benefit financially from it. Swartz downloaded the material because he believed that such information — in this case, much of it research underwritten by taxpayers — should be free to the public. He did it not to make a buck, but to make a point.

...

Last edited by td11 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:09:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sequestering The Night Away - Politics

Postby The Dude » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:08:46

td11 wrote:i'm a little confused, what are you asking about? whether JSTOR has final say over who can download the articles they make available?


Exactly, bc they're only licensed to provide it. Like my example, we allow companies to sell electronic versions of our books to institutions. If illegal copies of our books wound up online, we would still get a say in whether prosecution would take place. The provider would not be the final say. I'm curious how that licensing works.
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Re: Sequestering The Night Away - Politics

Postby td11 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:12:09

i gotcha. i think that is up to the institution because JSTOR sure as shit doesn't try to prevent anyone from abusing the content download feature. i think at UD they maybe had a limit to how many you could download locally per day, like 3-5? but you could certainly print out however many you wanted.

he was a good dude who did this out of zero motivation for personal gain and was facing 35 years in prison.
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Re: Sequestering The Night Away - Politics

Postby TenuredVulture » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:13:50

Right--access to JStor gives you basically the same rights you'd have if you subscribed to the paper journals--you can download pdfs, print, use them on an e-reader, and so on. If I decide to assign an article on jstor to my students, I can provide them a link, and I can probably legally copy it and distribute it to them (but my paranoid university might not let me use a university copier).

It's important to understand the economics of academic journal publishing is a little different than other forms of journal publishing. I currently have a paper available on SSRN (Social Science Research Network, bascially a repository for conference papers)--it's not peer reviewed, but I retain control of the copyright. I'd be ecstatic if lots of people started downloading and talking about it, because from the author's perspective, the value of your work isn't reflected in how much you were paid to write it, but how many citations you receive. So the more widely it's distributed, the better. Thus, there's at least some incentive in publishing in journals that are widely disseminated. Until recently, most academics probably didn't care about the connection between subscription costs and dissemination. But I think with the growth of arXiv (a free on-line journal, mostly science and math with some econ) and so forth, that may be changing. And peer review may be changing as well, which as Wiz noted is a whole nother thing.
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Re: Sequestering The Night Away - Politics

Postby The Dude » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:14:52

again, not talking libraries, talking about the actual people who publish the journals. just interested in the piracy aspect of it bc it's starting to affect my company severely
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Re: Sequestering The Night Away - Politics

Postby td11 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:16:20

from what i've read about this case, no actual journal and/or publisher seem to have been interested in prosecuting Swartz. it was just JSTOR and MIT
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Re: Sequestering The Night Away - Politics

Postby pacino » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:17:07

Bucky wrote:Regardless of the specifics, I don't think we can pin this dude's death on anyone else. There's obviously deeper pathology there.

certainly didnt help that hte government was pursuing a 50 year sentence over a new-age version of keeping a library book
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Re: Sequestering The Night Away - Politics

Postby The Dude » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:17:46

yeah, it's probably not worth it for them to go after one person like that. Its just who it was that drove the federales. i just hadn't seen any info at all from any individual publisher or society
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Re: Sequestering The Night Away - Politics

Postby drsmooth » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:06:13

jerseyhoya wrote:
drsmooth wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Obama won Suffolk County by 3.4% and Nassau County by 7.6%, and the GOP holds all 9 state senate seats there. Ancestrally GOP and on state issues makes sense that they'd differentiate themselves from the city, but that's still something.

It may be something, but it's not anything to do with Obama

now if spineless Tom Libous voted in favor of the legislation, now that would be new (but still not about Obama)

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No, it doesn't really have anything to do with Obama. Penetrating observation.


You suggested it does, I suggested it doesn't. I have some actual personal & professional experience with the New York State legislature, particularly the senate, and you are a nice chap on the internet who's studying political science. we differ. C'est la vie, mon ami
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Re: Sequestering The Night Away - Politics

Postby The Crimson Cyclone » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:19:21

who's going to live in Beck's utopia?

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/gle ... 54956.html
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Re: Sequestering The Night Away - Politics

Postby td11 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:20:36

Doll Is Mine wrote:Al Sharpton just bitchslapped a little whiny white dude who thought he could get away with claiming that MLK would support "Gun Appreciation Day".

:lol:


Martin Luther King’s Conservative Principles
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Re: Sequestering The Night Away - Politics

Postby jerseyhoya » Tue Jan 15, 2013 13:04:37

drsmooth wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
drsmooth wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Obama won Suffolk County by 3.4% and Nassau County by 7.6%, and the GOP holds all 9 state senate seats there. Ancestrally GOP and on state issues makes sense that they'd differentiate themselves from the city, but that's still something.

It may be something, but it's not anything to do with Obama

now if spineless Tom Libous voted in favor of the legislation, now that would be new (but still not about Obama)

/guywhoworkedforNYSenateeonsagowhenitwasjustaboutthesame

No, it doesn't really have anything to do with Obama. Penetrating observation.


You suggested it does, I suggested it doesn't. I have some actual personal & professional experience with the New York State legislature, particularly the senate, and you are a nice chap on the internet who's studying political science. we differ. C'est la vie, mon ami

I thought it was interesting they could chop an area containing nearly three million people that leans Democratic on the federal level into nine districts that elect Republicans. And that all nine Republicans voted for the gun control legislation passed yesterday, which might be partially explanatory for how that happens. The Obama vote share was referenced as a marker for Democratic performance in federal elections on Long Island, contrasting with GOP performance at the state level. I could have said no Republican presidential candidate has won either county since 1992 or that the last Republican to win Nassau+Suffolk was GHWB in 1988 or that three of the four Congressmen from Long Island are Democrats to emphasize the Democratic lean of the place when it comes to electing folks to Washington.

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Re: Sequestering The Night Away - Politics

Postby Monkeyboy » Tue Jan 15, 2013 13:42:33

td11 wrote:
Doll Is Mine wrote:Al Sharpton just bitchslapped a little whiny white dude who thought he could get away with claiming that MLK would support "Gun Appreciation Day".

:lol:


Martin Luther King’s Conservative Principles



Too bad their policies don't actually follow the 3 ways they supposedly agree with King.
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Re: Sequestering The Night Away - Politics

Postby Werthless » Tue Jan 15, 2013 13:52:15

td11 wrote:
Doll Is Mine wrote:Al Sharpton just bitchslapped a little whiny white dude who thought he could get away with claiming that MLK would support "Gun Appreciation Day".

:lol:


Martin Luther King’s Conservative Principles


This article was quite reasonable, and probably because the author doesnt try to equate conservatism with modern GOP policy squabbles.

1. He dreamed of a color-blind society based on the equality of all Americans and their sharing of equal unalienable rights.
2. King explicitly ground his efforts in the Christian tradition. King believed that churches and other faith-based associations were necessary for a grassroots revival of American culture. He also stressed the importance of the family. Indeed, King’s fears about black family breakdown led him to become one of the few civil-rights leaders not to reject Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s controversial 1965 report that warned of rising illegitimacy rates among blacks.
3. King firmly embraced the core principles of America’s founding
When these disinherited children of God sat down at lunch counters,” King wrote in his “Letter From a Birmingham Jail,” “they were in reality standing up for what is best in the American dream and for the most sacred values in our Judaeo-Christian heritage, thereby bringing our nation back to those great wells of democracy which were dug deep by the founding fathers in their formulation of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.

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Re: Sequestering The Night Away - Politics

Postby Youseff » Tue Jan 15, 2013 13:58:34

which one of MLK's peers has become a conservative later in life?
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Re: Sequestering The Night Away - Politics

Postby Monkeyboy » Tue Jan 15, 2013 13:59:54

Werthless wrote:
td11 wrote:
Doll Is Mine wrote:Al Sharpton just bitchslapped a little whiny white dude who thought he could get away with claiming that MLK would support "Gun Appreciation Day".

:lol:


Martin Luther King’s Conservative Principles


This article was quite reasonable, and probably because the author doesnt try to equate conservatism with modern GOP policy squabbles.

1. He dreamed of a color-blind society based on the equality of all Americans and their sharing of equal unalienable rights.
2. King explicitly ground his efforts in the Christian tradition. King believed that churches and other faith-based associations were necessary for a grassroots revival of American culture. He also stressed the importance of the family. Indeed, King’s fears about black family breakdown led him to become one of the few civil-rights leaders not to reject Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s controversial 1965 report that warned of rising illegitimacy rates among blacks.
3. King firmly embraced the core principles of America’s founding
When these disinherited children of God sat down at lunch counters,” King wrote in his “Letter From a Birmingham Jail,” “they were in reality standing up for what is best in the American dream and for the most sacred values in our Judaeo-Christian heritage, thereby bringing our nation back to those great wells of democracy which were dug deep by the founding fathers in their formulation of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.



Modern day "conservatives" don't really support policies that are very compatible with these things.

Now if you're saying that modern day conservatives aren't really conservatives, I would be much more inclined to agree.
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Re: Sequestering The Night Away - Politics

Postby td11 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 14:00:38

MLK loved guns. He died doing what he loved and would have voted Romney

He had "conservative principles" but was a liberal given the time period he lived in
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Re: Sequestering The Night Away - Politics

Postby JFLNYC » Tue Jan 15, 2013 14:43:57

Werthless wrote:This article was quite reasonable, and probably because the author doesnt try to equate conservatism with modern GOP policy squabbles.

1. He dreamed of a color-blind society based on the equality of all Americans and their sharing of equal unalienable rights.


You can stop right there. The vast majority of wealthy conservatives want to deal with people of color as little as possible, except insofar as those people of color may be performing service jobs for them. The vast majority of non-wealthy conservatives want to deal with people of color as little as possible, except insofar as those people of color may be helping their favorite sports teams win games.

Werthless wrote:2. King explicitly ground his efforts in the Christian tradition. King believed that churches and other faith-based associations were necessary for a grassroots revival of American culture. He also stressed the importance of the family. Indeed, King’s fears about black family breakdown led him to become one of the few civil-rights leaders not to reject Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s controversial 1965 report that warned of rising illegitimacy rates among blacks.


I know it comes as a shock to conservatives, but liberals, too, believe in those principles.

Werthless wrote:3. King firmly embraced the core principles of America’s founding
When these disinherited children of God sat down at lunch counters,” King wrote in his “Letter From a Birmingham Jail,” “they were in reality standing up for what is best in the American dream and for the most sacred values in our Judaeo-Christian heritage, thereby bringing our nation back to those great wells of democracy which were dug deep by the founding fathers in their formulation of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.


The reason it was brave for those disinherited children of God to sit down at lunch counters was because of what conservatives had done to them when they tried sitting down at lunch counters before.
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Re: Sequestering The Night Away - Politics

Postby RichmondPhilsFan » Tue Jan 15, 2013 17:13:55

The Crimson Cyclone wrote:who's going to live in Beck's utopia?

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/gle ... 54956.html

Hopefully he'll move there and stay there.

But this line made me LOL:

"There's not going to be a Gap here. There's no Ann Taylor. You want an Ann Taylor, go someplace else," Beck said in a video announcement. The marketplace, Beck says, will be a place for people to create their own businesses and learn from others.


No Ann Taylor? And he calls it a utopia?

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Re: Sequestering The Night Away - Politics

Postby slugsrbad » Tue Jan 15, 2013 18:35:45

The Governator was on Reddit and had this to say about the GOP:

"The most important thing is that we need to be a party that is inclusive and tolerant. We can be those things and be the party we always have been. We need to think about the environment - Teddy Roosevelt was a great environmentalist and people forget Reagan was the one who dealt with the ozone layer with the Montreal protocol. We also need to talk about healthcare honestly - Nixon almost passed universal healthcare. We need to have an talk about immigration and realize you can't just deport people. We need a comprehensive answer. We also need to stay out of people's bedrooms. The party that is for small government shouldn't be over-reaching into people's private lives.

Mainly, we need to be a party where people know what we are for, not just what we are against."
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