Super Fun Time Politics Thread in Which We Discuss Stuff

Re: Super Fun Time Politics Thread in Which We Discuss Stuff

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:49:43

Youseff wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
Youseff wrote:http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2012/08/20/the-many-faces-of-the-republican-party/

“Tea party” movement Republicans – 28 percent of Republicans

Which doesn't include Alex Jones...

He's very positive about them which is one of the only things he's positive about. Beyond that the ideologies are very much the same. Where do you think this birth certificate shit started to get legs? Where do you think all this muslim shit got legs? This is where I stop myself and wonder does JH really not see this or is he playing board pundit.

Jones is positive about a very small number of Republican politicians. Basically Ron Paul and his handful of acolytes. Tea party Republicans in the survey you linked to voted for Mitt Romney 98% of the time and were basically used as a synonym for the Republican base. That's a long damn way from where Alex Jones is.

I've never listened to Jones' show and before this flap two days ago I knew four things about him, two of which Beck mentions - 9/11 Truther stuff, Charlie Sheen and him are friends, he was a Ron Paul guy, and he asked a wacky question to George Bush when he was governor of Texas that got him arrested:



Reading over show excerpts it seems like he's like a lot of people from the fringes. Republicans and Democrats are basically the same, controlled by international forces and whatever other boogeymen he likes to point to. In 2008, he promoted conspiracy theories about McCain's time in captivity in Vietnam (the search tags here are special "john mccain manchurian candidate republican presidential president 2008 alex jones election infowars liberal arizona"). Romney was seen as a plant of the Bilderberg folks; just another piece of the globalist neocon something or other that would continue destroying America's economy and national sovereignty. And of course George W. Bush was basically satan.

You're operating with this binary assumption that everyone who disagrees with you from the right is a Republican. This is not the case. As I said last night, I'm sure more Republicans listen to his show than Democrats (especially in the Obama era), but the audience is heavily folks who vote third party or don't vote because they think there's no difference between Democrats and Republicans or they want to stay off the grid. His message is decidedly not one that supports the Republican Party.

As a tangent, it always interests me how much the rhetoric of the far right sounds like the far left in a lot of ways. PtK would be a lot more comfortable with a ton of the stuff Jones espouses than any of the right leaning posters on BSG. The further round the bend you go in your distrust of the 'establishment', the closer you come to meeting up with the other side.

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Re: Super Fun Time Politics Thread in Which We Discuss Stuff

Postby Houshphandzadeh » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:52:41

the aliens/Illuminati guys on my facebook feed are all posting this video big upping Jones. they don't vote

it's funny to see people who don't realize how crazy they are assume they're bashing Jones and then get into a nonsensical argument

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Re: Super Fun Time Politics Thread in Which We Discuss Stuff

Postby Werthless » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:59:02

pacino wrote:this was a democratic TROUNCING. dang, biden.

werthless wrote:OK, so it was a symbolic win for the president and his party. OK, I get that. I just wanted to make sure that people didnt think that this does anything to either improve economic performance or the long-term trajectory we're on. Baby steps, I guess. I think that no deal would have been better medicine than this deal, but I'm a believer that a series of short-term patches is bad for the economy, and we'll continue limping along at 2% of growth until the next recession.


pacino wrote:the further we get from January 1st, the more i think i hate the deal that was struck and think it was too weak and quick when we didn't have to strike one right away. too many tax cuts.

I was hoping you'd come around.
Last edited by Werthless on Wed Jan 09, 2013 13:05:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super Fun Time Politics Thread in Which We Discuss Stuff

Postby Youseff » Wed Jan 09, 2013 13:03:36

You’re operating under this false assumption that the fringe part that believes in FEMA death camps and Obama being a gay Muslim is a marginal part of your party. It’s not. I’d be comfortable saying this absurd conspiracy stuff is pretty mainstream in the Republican party. I'd be comfortable in saying most Tea Partiers are conspiracy oriented and may not agree with him on Diet Coke being an NWO conspiracy but there's certainly a healthy overlap in the aforementioned.
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Re: Super Fun Time Politics Thread in Which We Discuss Stuff

Postby Woody » Wed Jan 09, 2013 14:09:09

Wait I thought Alex Jones was performance art
you sure do seem to have a lot of time on your hands to be on this forum? Do you have a job? Are you a shut-in?

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Re: Super Fun Time Politics Thread in Which We Discuss Stuff

Postby Youseff » Wed Jan 09, 2013 14:34:35

more fringe libertarian violent paranoia that has nothing to do with the Republican party below

http://www.drudgereport.com/

ImageImage

WHITE HOUSE THREATENS 'EXECUTIVE ORDERS' ON GUNS

:lol: :lol:
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Re: Super Fun Time Politics Thread in Which We Discuss Stuff

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed Jan 09, 2013 15:15:59

Drudge posted something insane to get page views?! Well I'll never

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Re: Super Fun Time Politics Thread in Which We Discuss Stuff

Postby td11 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 15:20:21

drudge never came through on the menendez prostitute thing, fuck them
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Re: Super Fun Time Politics Thread in Which We Discuss Stuff

Postby Youseff » Wed Jan 09, 2013 15:24:20

jerseyhoya wrote:Drudge posted something insane to get page views?! Well I'll never


the point is it's indicative of thinking for a big chunk of Republicans.
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Re: Super Fun Time Politics Thread in Which We Discuss Stuff

Postby Doll Is Mine » Wed Jan 09, 2013 15:26:09

Obama is so coming for your guns!

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Re: Super Fun Time Politics Thread in Which We Discuss Stuff

Postby JFLNYC » Wed Jan 09, 2013 15:42:39

In the absence of a Constitutional amendment, I believe any meaningful gun control is doomed. Just as the courts have always allowed reasonable time, place and manner restrictions on First Amendment rights (you can't shout "fire" in a crowded theater), in order for there to be meaningful gun control there will have to be a Constitutional amendment to the effect that the government may adopt reasonable restrictions on the manufacture, sale and possession of firearms.
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Re: Super Fun Time Politics Thread in Which We Discuss Stuff

Postby thephan » Wed Jan 09, 2013 15:45:34

CalvinBall wrote:is that for real?


yes, Atlantic Starr did sing Secret Lovers
yawn

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Re: Super Fun Time Politics Thread in Which We Discuss Stuff

Postby thephan » Wed Jan 09, 2013 15:48:15

the aliens/Illuminati guys on my facebook feed ... Oh housh...
:lol:
yawn

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Re: Super Fun Time Politics Thread in Which We Discuss Stuff

Postby Houshphandzadeh » Wed Jan 09, 2013 15:49:52

one of them is one of my best friends, as much as it pains me

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Re: Super Fun Time Politics Thread in Which We Discuss Stuff

Postby pacino » Wed Jan 09, 2013 19:19:33

austerity fails in europe:
The euro zone jobless rate rose to 11.8 percent in November from 11.7 percent in October, according to Eurostat, the statistical agency of the European Union. Eurostat estimated that 18.8 million people in the euro zone were unemployed in November, two million more than a year earlier.

Germany has provided momentum to the European economy over the past three years, as strong exports protected the country from the crisis.

But on Tuesday, the Federal Statistics Office in Berlin said that German exports declined 3.4 percent while imports slid 3.7 percent in November from a month earlier. The weakness narrowed Germany’s trade surplus to €14.6 billion, or $19 billion.

German factory orders also fell in November amid weak demand from outside the euro area, the Economy Ministry said Tuesday. Orders, adjusted for seasonal swings and inflation, slid 1.8 percent from October, when they jumped 3.8 percent.

Attacking joblessness may require governments to ease back on austerity measures that many economists, including some at the International Monetary Fund, say might have gone too far. In France, President François Hollande has vowed to turn around the flagging labor market, where, according to Eurostat, unemployment was 10.5 percent in November.

Eurostat said Spain, which is suffering from the collapse of a real estate bubble and the impact of a raft of tough austerity measures, had the highest unemployment rate in the bloc, at 26.6 percent. Greece, where the sovereign debt crisis began, was next at 26 percent, according to data released in September. The lowest rates were in Austria, at 4.5 percent; Luxembourg, at 5.1 percent; and Germany, at 5.4 percent.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

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Re: Super Fun Time Politics Thread in Which We Discuss Stuff

Postby GrizzledVeteran » Thu Jan 10, 2013 09:54:35

5.1 percent of the population in Luxembourg is unemployed? What's that, like 27 people?
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Re: Super Fun Time Politics Thread in Which We Discuss Stuff

Postby The Crimson Cyclone » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:51:46

GrizzledVeteran wrote:5.1 percent of the population in Luxembourg is unemployed? What's that, like 27 people?


population is 517K,
64% of the population is aged 18-64
65% of the population aged 18-64 works

roughly 11K people are jobless

/larryliteral
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Re: Super Fun Time Politics Thread in Which We Discuss Stuff

Postby dajafi » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:59:42

It's really interesting to me that "austerity" got such a fuller trial in Europe than here, even though the median voter there and state is probably well to the left of the avg American and their organized left is much stronger. I guess it's simply that in a parliamentary system, you can implement your agenda until you're voted out. Here, with a center-left government and a radical right opposition, we've tried a kind of mumblecore Keynesianism, which has worked better if not "well."

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Re: Super Fun Time Politics Thread in Which We Discuss Stuff

Postby pacino » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:01:15

i'm not sure which is the better system, but theirs certainly lets the ruling party try out their programs and give it a go. it stinks for they appear to have voted in the wrong people.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Re: Super Fun Time Politics Thread in Which We Discuss Stuff

Postby TenuredVulture » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:05:37

dajafi wrote:It's really interesting to me that "austerity" got such a fuller trial in Europe than here, even though the median voter there and state is probably well to the left of the avg American and their organized left is much stronger. I guess it's simply that in a parliamentary system, you can implement your agenda until you're voted out. Here, with a center-left government and a radical right opposition, we've tried a kind of mumblecore Keynesianism, which has worked better if not "well."


However, since there's a more thorough safety net in Europe, unemployment isn't as devastating as it is here--for instance, you don't lose access to healthcare. That probably has some impact on the politics of austerity.

I think a similar approach would increase support for free trade. Currently, free trade benefits those at the top, and the rest pay the cost. Thus, there's not a whole lot of political enthusiasm for free trade. However, if expansions of free trade were accompanied by an expansion of policy that helped people not just cope, but distributed the benefits of free trade more equitably, the politics might change. Such an example (not to be totally self serving here) would be substantial increases funding for higher education through say more Pell grants.
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