Super Fun Time Politics Thread in Which We Discuss Stuff

by **drsmooth** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 00:53:34

Doll Is Mine wrote:Tom Ricks interview on FOX.

dunno if I'd want to be in a foxhole with ricks (yes, the pun's intended)

by **Houshphandzadeh** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 02:11:27

Gimme a break with this. He went right after them in a manner totally tangential to the topic. What does he or anyone expect

by **drsmooth** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 09:17:25

Joe Scarborough's turned to calling the McCain/Graham pilloring of Susan Rice a "clown show". And if there is one thing Joe Scarborough is qualified by firsthand experience for in all this world, it is recognizing clown shows when he sees them.

by **Soren** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 09:22:59

I mean, I think it's hilarious but that was kind of definitely a dick move.

by **RichmondPhilsFan** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:21:01

Here in VA, the current Lieutenant Governor and lone GOP opponent to Ken Cuccinelli (current AG) just dropped out of the race this morning. So we're likely looking at Cuccinelli versus Terry McAuliffe (yes that Terry McAuliffe) for the Governor's Mansion in 2013.

Extremely interesting b/c Bill Bolling (the LG) stepped aside in 2009 to let Bob McDonnell run unopposed, with everyone understanding that it meant he'd get his shot in 2013. So, yeah.

by **dajafi** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:30:55

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:Here in VA, the current Lieutenant Governor and lone GOP opponent to Ken Cuccinelli (current AG) just dropped out of the race this morning. So we're likely looking at Cuccinelli versus Terry McAuliffe (yes that Terry McAuliffe) for the Governor's Mansion in 2013.

Extremely interesting b/c Bill Bolling (the LG) stepped aside in 2009 to let Bob McDonnell run unopposed, with everyone understanding that it meant he'd get his shot in 2013. So, yeah.

My mind slides off the possibility that two people as repulsive as those guys could live in the same state, let alone run against each other.

I get that they can't be denied their nominations, because "Cooch" is the craziest of bug fuck insane right wingers and "Mac" can utilize his one evident human talent, raising money from rich liberal dimwits and influence seekers. But isn't there an independent in VA who could run and win simply by saying, "Look at these assholes and note that I am not them"?

by **drsmooth** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:40:38

Cuccinelli's a pinched, right-wing bootlicking bagman, all for wasting taxpayers' time challenging ACA's constitutionality & such. Who wouldn't want Goodtime Terry as a governor? Loosen up, Virginia!

by **RichmondPhilsFan** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:51:04

The worst part is that it would create a whole lot of uncertainty (and potentially much worse) for me professionally if McAuliffe came into office.

by **CalvinBall** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:04:14

Romney is having lunch at the White House tomorrow. Maybe he wants a job?

by **dajafi** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:27:48

Little shows the fucked up, insular/oblivious nature of DC more than the emerging wisdom that no deal on the "austerity bomb" (as Krugman calls it--a term I prefer to "fiscal cliff") can happen until mid/late December because "Washington needs deadlines." Like they're all slacker college sophomores or something.

The markets are not responding well to this, and I think there's an equal argument to be made that as the stakes get higher, these fanatical assholes will get even more dug in and fearful of the political consequences of compromise. This is true for Democrats now posturing (or meaning) that entitlements are sacrosanct and utterly perfect as they are, in addition to the Republicans eager to die on the hill of continued low taxes for the super-rich... which happily seems like a dwindling number. Though I guess it's also true that it's easier to envision primary challenges to Rs who deviate from Norquistian holy writ on taxes than Democrats who dare to suggest some means testing or other modifications to entitlements.

by **pacino** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:50:37

when you start from the centrist position on everything, it's utterly normal for liberals to be upset about the negotiations, dajafi, and 'dig their heels in'.

by **dajafi** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:05:57

What would you cede? Look at the demographics: we can't go gold-plated with benefits and continue a massive transfer of wealth from young to old, unless we want to do pretty much nothing else as a country.

It's easy to demonize this as people trying to stick it to seniors or (as maybe you're thinking in my case) pseudo-liberals selling out. My perspective on it, though, is that the inefficiency in these programs means less money for infrastructure investment, education, social services and pretty much everything else we progressives care about. Same as with the even more bloated and cut-worthy defense budget. We can either continue lavishly subsidizing seniors or advance a larger equity agenda.

These programs are supposed to adapt in alignment to changing circumstances. Both in terms of the population and the economics of the healthcare field, there's overwhelming justification for an overhaul of programs that haven't changed much in almost 50 years. Not only is this a price well worth paying for new revenues--hopefully both a return to the Clinton-era rate for the top tier and either a new rate above that for really high incomes or a cap on deductions--it's worth exploring on its own merits as an equity and efficiency measure.

by **drsmooth** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:10:53

dajafi wrote:Little shows the fucked up, insular/oblivious nature of DC more than the emerging wisdom that no deal on the "austerity bomb" (as Krugman calls it--a term I prefer to "fiscal cliff") can happen until mid/late December because "Washington needs deadlines." Like they're all slacker college sophomores or something.

The markets are not responding well to this, and I think there's an equal argument to be made that as the stakes get higher, these fanatical assholes will get even more dug in and fearful of the political consequences of compromise. This is true for Democrats now posturing (or meaning) that entitlements are sacrosanct and utterly perfect as they are, in addition to the Republicans eager to die on the hill of continued low taxes for the super-rich... which happily seems like a dwindling number. Though I guess it's also true that it's easier to envision primary challenges to Rs who deviate from Norquistian holy writ on taxes than Democrats who dare to suggest some means testing or other modifications to entitlements.

As with all bookies, "the markets" love nothing more than the opportunity to generate transactions. This situation is GREAT for "the markets".

It has much less relevance for "the" economy than the same uh-oh squad wants everyone to believe.

by **pacino** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:13:12

I don't think there are any inherent flaws with Medicaid or Medicare that I would fix except for tweaks in how the money is collected. The major problem with those programs is they are healthcare programs and our system is ridiculous. the ACA helped with access but dealth very little with cost. we need to expand the public healthcare system to control costs. is there the ability for either party to do that? i don't think so. about 25% of politicans want that. that is the biggest cost control we could do, imo. social security needs to raise the cap and reinstate the payroll tax amount to properly fund it as there was only a temporary fix to replenishing it when they lowered rates in 09. the 'compromise' to me would be raising taxes on everyone in ways people won't even realize (just as they didn't realize their taxes were lowered).

as far as ceding, what is there to cede really? the things you listed as ceding do very little. and what is means-testing to one is cutting another's lifestyle in half to another. i'm not sure we can get an actual consensus on that that would be fair for anyone.

i'm fairly resigned to what obama and the republicans want, and it's beyond what you want, and further beyond what i want. it's token change, and he'll have to convince me otherwise.

by **dajafi** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 13:02:43

What happens with the payroll tax will be pretty interesting. Raising the cap and/or playing with the rates to increase progressivity seems both an obvious step and something the Rs will resist fiercely, hating progressive taxation as they do.

I agree of course re cost control, but am more optimistic about the possibilities there than you are; it's among the less painful ways to save on the spending side, and I think the Rs might take to it as part of their image rehab project and marginalizing shrill idiots like Palin.

by **TenuredVulture** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 15:39:51

I do think in the healthcare debate we have to come to grips with the reality that everyone is going to die, and sometimes, it's better to acknowledge that fact than to go crazy keeping people alive just because we can.

by **The Nightman Cometh** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 15:51:55

TenuredVulture wrote:I do think in the healthcare debate we have to come to grips with the reality that everyone is going to die, and sometimes, it's better to acknowledge that fact than to go crazy keeping people alive just because we can.

Yeah, but there are a number of countries with higher life expectancy and lower cost of care.

by **td11** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 16:34:52

The Nightman Cometh wrote:
TenuredVulture wrote:I do think in the healthcare debate we have to come to grips with the reality that everyone is going to die, and sometimes, it's better to acknowledge that fact than to go crazy keeping people alive just because we can.

Yeah, but there are a number of countries with higher life expectancy and lower cost of care.

those countries likely don't have adult obesity rates around 33%

by **JFLNYC** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 16:44:31

Take that, thin countries!

by **Grotewold** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 18:36:06

The Onion wrote:Congressman Torn Between Meaningless Pledge To Anti-Tax Zealot, Well-Being Of Nation

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