Full of Passionate Intensity: POLITICS THREAD

Postby jerseyhoya » Thu Nov 19, 2009 19:06:12

I'd vote for Rubio, and I believe Obama was born in Hawaii.

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Postby philliesphhan » Fri Nov 20, 2009 05:13:00

dajafi wrote:Perfect:

At the front of the bookstore, a display of "Going Rogue" books sat next to a table loaded with tomes by the likes of Richard Dawkins and Vladimir Nabokov. NBC, CNN, ABC and other networks set up their live shots nearby. And Judith Doctor, 69, asked a Barnes and Noble employee for an orange wristband, to no avail.

Doctor, a self-described spiritual therapist, said that Americans have mostly misunderstood Palin's visceral appeal. It has nothing to do with her politics, or her folksiness, or her looks, she asserted.

"She's alive inside, and that radiates energy, and people who are not psychologically alive inside are fascinated by that. There's a wire in those left-wing liberals that has never been quickened, and Sarah's got it."

Doctor described the day she saw Palin introduced as McCain's running mate as one in which "an electric shock went through me. I began to weep. There is something about that woman that has destiny, whether it's in politics, to be president, or to host a talk show."


LOL, might as well say someone is destined to be a doctor...or perhaps pump gas.
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Postby jerseyhoya » Sat Nov 21, 2009 02:16:17

dajafi wrote:This is troubling:

A new Public Policy Pollling survey finds that 52% of Republican voters nationally think that ACORN stole the Presidential election for Barack Obama last year, with only 27% granting that he won it legitimately.


To be sure, a lot of Democrats probably felt this way about Bush. But those elections, 2000 in particular, were really close, with much more in the way of reported irregularities. Obama's wasn't a blowout, but it was more comparable to '88, '92 or '96--not particularly late election nights.

That many on the right seem to perceive ACORN as American politics' answer to SPECTRE would be really funny if it weren't so depressing.


I was pretty shocked by this new poll that found that 52 percent of Republican voters think ACORN stole the 2008 presidential election for Obama. I wanted to get some perspective, though, so I looked for polls that assessed voters' feelings about the 2000 elections. I figured that, even with hanging chads and all, fewer Democratic voters would have considered Bush illegitimate back then than those Republicans who now feel that way about Obama. So I was pretty shocked to find this CBS Poll from January '01, which found that 76 percent of Democrats didn't consider Bush the legitimate winner of the 2000 election. Now, granted, this poll was taken only a few months after the Florida fiasco--which, unlike ACORN, was actually real, not to mention fresh--but still . . . 76 percent!


TNR

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Postby dajafi » Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:13:55

It's an obvious comparison, but not a fair one.

Gore won the national popular vote by a small but real margin, so right there anyone who considers the EC illegitimate as the arbiter of victory in what labels itself as a democracy is alienated. In Florida, there's considerable reason to think more people intended to vote for Gore, if not actually did--even before you get to the shenanigans of Katharine Harris or a Supreme Court decision that was so legally flimsy they actually said. "don't use this as precedent." I'm surprised it wasn't higher than 76 percent.

With ACORN, there's nothing except Glenn Beck's madness. Not to mention that this supposed mega-conspiracy wasn't even slick enough to avoid getting punked by two twentysomethings playing dressup.

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Postby jerseyhoya » Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:41:16

I think partisans, like sports fans, have a hard time admitting their team lost legitimately. Liverpool were screwed today by an offside goal and a 50/50 penalty not being given. The draw had nothing to do with a genuine mediocrity up and down Liverpool's squad of course. It was the fucking ref and the stupid linesman's fault.

I don't know if any similar polling was done after 2004, but I'd bet if there was some question asked whether Diebold and other nefarious forces in the VRWC stole the election for Bush, you would have gotten a solid majority of Democrats who said yes.

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Postby dajafi » Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:53:45

You're probably right about that, though I think more in close games/elections than one-sided contests. 2008 wasn't a blowout, but it was a solid win--comparable to the last two World Series. 2000 was more like the 1985 (Denkinger) Series.

I wa wondering the same thing about '04. That data has to be out there; I'd look if I were home rather than waiting for a bus. You might well be right about Dems feeling it was stolen; maybe I'm unusual as seeing that one, but not '00, as legit.

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Postby jerseyhoya » Sat Nov 21, 2009 13:02:00

Also I think the fact that it was an automated poll drove that number higher than it is in reality. They hear, "Press 1 if you think ACORN stole the election for Barack Obama, Press 2 if you think Barack Obama won the election legitimately" and think, hell yeah that ACORN group stole the election for that socialist. If they were asked a follow up of "Do you really think ACORN stole the election for Barack Obama, Press 1 for Yes, Press 2 for No." I think there'd be a fair bit of drop off.

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Postby Phan In Phlorida » Sat Nov 21, 2009 15:19:28

dajafi wrote:It's an obvious comparison, but not a fair one.

Gore won the national popular vote by a small but real margin, so right there anyone who considers the EC illegitimate as the arbiter of victory in what labels itself as a democracy is alienated. In Florida, there's considerable reason to think more people intended to vote for Gore, if not actually did--even before you get to the shenanigans of Katharine Harris or a Supreme Court decision that was so legally flimsy they actually said. "don't use this as precedent." I'm surprised it wasn't higher than 76 percent.

Bill Maher's summation

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Postby dajafi » Sat Nov 21, 2009 16:46:22

jerseyhoya wrote:Also I think the fact that it was an automated poll drove that number higher than it is in reality. They hear, "Press 1 if you think ACORN stole the election for Barack Obama, Press 2 if you think Barack Obama won the election legitimately" and think, hell yeah that ACORN group stole the election for that socialist. If they were asked a follow up of "Do you really think ACORN stole the election for Barack Obama, Press 1 for Yes, Press 2 for No." I think there'd be a fair bit of drop off.


Didn't know it was automated. That's certainly possible.

Also, a poll like that--with a "really?" follow-up question--would be hilarious, and should be implemented often.

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Postby jerseyhoya » Sat Nov 21, 2009 16:55:44

Really separate the hardcore crazy people from the bitter partisans who have some attachment to reality

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Postby Swiggers » Sat Nov 21, 2009 17:37:05

Poll wording is everything. You could get 52% of Americans to say they believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster if you word the question the right way.

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Postby jerseyhoya » Sat Nov 21, 2009 18:43:38

I'm reading the comments on 538.com on the post about Lincoln, Nelson and Lieberman signaling they're going to filibuster the public option, and there were a couple of people calling for the nuclear option to blow up the filibuster forever. One guy noted Reid wouldn't have the balls to do it. Really, Reid's lack of balls aren't really the issue. He has a 0% of rounding up 51 votes on it.

I think the lesson at the end of the day in all of this is if you want senators from Nebraska, Louisiana and Arkansas, states McCain won by 15, 19 and 20 points, they're probably going to be putzes.

And with Lieberman, well, what can you say I guess.

Oh cool now they're talking about abolishing the Senate

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Postby jerseyhoya » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:33:37

Rep. Dennis Moore (D-Kan.) will be retiring after serving six terms in the House, according to the congressman's office, a decision which gives House Republicans a golden opportunity to pick up his seat next year.

We're like 10 of these away from legitimately putting the House in play

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Postby drsmooth » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:53:49

jerseyhoya wrote:
Rep. Dennis Moore (D-Kan.) will be retiring after serving six terms in the House, according to the congressman's office, a decision which gives House Republicans a golden opportunity to pick up his seat next year.

We're like 10 of these away from legitimately putting the House in play


y'all grab yer Bah-buls & prayyyyyyyy wit me.....

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Postby dajafi » Mon Nov 23, 2009 18:26:47

Interesting, and deeply depressing, comment to Ezra Klein's blog:

One thing I'll say for the GOP: early on they figured out Obama's Achilles' heel -- his unswerving commitment to his persona as a post-partisan healer, his fatuous self-regard and squeamishness about fighting hand-to-hand combat with Republicans. By positioning himself as the anti-Clinton and anti-Bush, Obama may be denied what both of his predecessors achieved: a second term.

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Postby drsmooth » Mon Nov 23, 2009 20:56:39

dajafi wrote:Interesting, and deeply depressing, comment to Ezra Klein's blog:

One thing I'll say for the GOP: early on they figured out Obama's Achilles' heel -- his unswerving commitment to his persona as a post-partisan healer, his fatuous self-regard and squeamishness about fighting hand-to-hand combat with Republicans. By positioning himself as the anti-Clinton and anti-Bush, Obama may be denied what both of his predecessors achieved: a second term.


but surely this bit from one of the posts that follows it has enough zip to re-energize you?


Last year "they" wanted me to transcend my cynicism and vote for change. Well, here we have it. Held hostage by the Walton Family's pet poodle. And that's after we got held up by a New Orleans hooker for $300 million.



I mean, whaddayagonnado?

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Postby jerseyhoya » Tue Nov 24, 2009 13:53:10

Obama's apparently gonna send 34k more troops to Afghanistan. Almost all of McChrystal's request. I'm surprised.

Is the left going to have a conniption over this?

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Postby dajafi » Tue Nov 24, 2009 14:34:58

Probably, and understandably. It could prompt the question of whether he's really done anything to advance a progressive agenda in his first year--especially if it's followed by caving to the conservaDem whores on health care.

What I'd like is for some on the right, and not just the Ron Paul crowd, to ask what exactly it is that we'll be buying with the public expenditure necessary to widen that war, and how we're going to pay for it. Debt is debt, whether it's incurred to help Americans or kill non-Americans...

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Postby CalvinBall » Tue Nov 24, 2009 17:45:29

My state representative announced today that she will not seek re-election in the fall. She has held the office for two terms when it is all said and done. She is a democrat and before her the seat was held by the same republican woman for like 30 years or something absurd.

She said in the paper she isn't going to run because you cant actually make change in Harrisburg. The leadership on both sides just wines and dines all the newcomers in hopes that they will just go along with the status quo. If you don't fall for their tricks you just burn out so quickly because no one there actually wants to help you get anything done. She said the whole system needs an overhaul.


The seat will probably go back to a Republican after the Democrats around here fought very hard to win the seat.

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Postby allentown » Tue Nov 24, 2009 18:34:23

jerseyhoya wrote:Obama's apparently gonna send 34k more troops to Afghanistan. Almost all of McChrystal's request. I'm surprised.

Is the left going to have a conniption over this?

Yes, but the bigger conniption will come when the failure to work out an election law seriously delays our withdrawal from Iraq. Iraq - worst government organization ever to call itself a democracy.
We now know that Amaro really is running the Phillies. He and Monty seem to have ignored the committee.
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