Birthers, Deathers, and the Muddled Middle: POLITICS THREAD

Postby Werthless » Tue Sep 22, 2009 09:26:09

drsmooth wrote:services like public post embody the nexus of political/economic activity, and test the persuasive powers of those who like their ideological abstractions transferred to the world of living breathing people straight up & unsullied by inconvenient habits, customs, etc.

:shock:

Werthless
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 12968
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 16:07:07

Postby TenuredVulture » Tue Sep 22, 2009 09:43:36

Werthless wrote:
drsmooth wrote:services like public post embody the nexus of political/economic activity, and test the persuasive powers of those who like their ideological abstractions transferred to the world of living breathing people straight up & unsullied by inconvenient habits, customs, etc.

:shock:


He's talking about hedgehogs and foxes.
Be Bold!

TenuredVulture
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
 
Posts: 53243
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 00:16:10
Location: Magnolia, AR

Postby drsmooth » Tue Sep 22, 2009 09:51:16

Werthless wrote:
drsmooth wrote:services like public post embody the nexus of political/economic activity, and test the persuasive powers of those who like their ideological abstractions transferred to the world of living breathing people straight up & unsullied by inconvenient habits, customs, etc.

:shock:


it's probably the purest coincidence that you responded to this post so quickly.

And then pretended to be incapable of reading.

When did it become cute to feign intellectual incapacity? I've noticed that this trope has gotten inordinate use in recent years.
Yes, but in a double utley you can put your utley on top they other guy's utley, and you're the winner. (Swish)

drsmooth
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 47349
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 19:24:48
Location: Low station

Postby Werthless » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:17:03

I'm the only one with the energy to respond to a post like that. Take that as you please (ignore it).

The entire second clause is nearly incomprehensible. So if you want people to respond to the content, go ahead and rephrase. (I'm not even sure why I bother, since I know you're capable of making well thought-out posts that are also readily readable. I'm just not sure you're aware of how a post like the one I quoted is received.)

PS. Maybe law school isn't for me.

Werthless
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 12968
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 16:07:07

Postby Houshphandzadeh » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:20:44

I think this calls for a poll.

Houshphandzadeh
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 64362
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 19:15:12
Location: nascar victory

Postby jerseyhoya » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:44:44

<embed src="http://c.brightcove.com/services/viewer/federated_f8/1155201977" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" flashVars="videoId=41363527001&playerId=1155201977&viewerSecureGatewayURL=https://console.brightcove.com/services/amfgateway&servicesURL=http://services.brightcove.com/services&cdnURL=http://admin.brightcove.com&domain=embed&autoStart=false&" base="http://admin.brightcove.com" name="flashObj" width="486" height="412" seamlesstabbing="false" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" swLiveConnect="true" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash"></embed>

So this happened

jerseyhoya
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 97408
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 21:56:17

Postby jeff2sf » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:52:43

drsmooth wrote:
Werthless wrote:
drsmooth wrote:services like public post embody the nexus of political/economic activity, and test the persuasive powers of those who like their ideological abstractions transferred to the world of living breathing people straight up & unsullied by inconvenient habits, customs, etc.

:shock:


it's probably the purest coincidence that you responded to this post so quickly.

And then pretended to be incapable of reading.

When did it become cute to feign intellectual incapacity? I've noticed that this trope has gotten inordinate use in recent years.


I had no idea what you were saying either, Smooth. I suppose it may be because I'm stupid, but it may also be that you refuse to speak plainly. I'm not sure why. Could you possibly think that your phrasing is the best way to communicate? I think more likely you get a kick out of your ability to turn a phrase (and you do have that ability). I just wonder if you get so caught up in the phrase turning, you ignore content, a la Bill Conlin.

You're going to keep on keeping on. And that's fine, but you're not easy to read, and the times where I do try, I find the reward is minimal (which isn't to say the content is poor).
jeff2sf
There's Our Old Friend
There's Our Old Friend
 
Posts: 3395
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:40:29

Postby drsmooth » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:59:22

Werthless wrote:The entire second clause is nearly incomprehensible....

PS. Maybe law school isn't for me.


Just because it makes your head hurt does not make it incomprehensible. That 'pain' you're feeling might even be thinking, or at least recognizing, that legal writing does not exactly constitute the template for rhetorical clarity.
Yes, but in a double utley you can put your utley on top they other guy's utley, and you're the winner. (Swish)

drsmooth
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 47349
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 19:24:48
Location: Low station

Postby Harpua » Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:25:50

I'm not trying to turn this into a whole big issue, but yeah, the writing in the public post paragraph made it hard to understand. Now seems like a fine time to link to this: http://www.pickthebrain.com/blog/george ... e-writing/

Harpua
There's Our Old Friend
There's Our Old Friend
 
Posts: 1916
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 01:13:25

Postby TenuredVulture » Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:24:44

Be Bold!

TenuredVulture
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
 
Posts: 53243
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 00:16:10
Location: Magnolia, AR

Postby jerseyhoya » Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:42:20

* Abortion
* Death Penalty
* Education Reform
* First Amendment
* Gas Prices
* Gun Control
* Homeland Security
* Immigration Reform
* Social Security Program Participation
* Taxes
* Tobacco


The issues that the member of Congress I'm doing research on today has on the drop down menu on his Congressional homepage. So, abortion and death penalty, check. Tobacco, check. Health care? Eh, is that a big deal these days?

jerseyhoya
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 97408
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 21:56:17

Postby TenuredVulture » Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:46:56

jerseyhoya wrote:
* Abortion
* Death Penalty
* Education Reform
* First Amendment
* Gas Prices
* Gun Control
* Homeland Security
* Immigration Reform
* Social Security Program Participation
* Taxes
* Tobacco


The issues that the member of Congress I'm doing research on today has on the drop down menu on his Congressional homepage. So, abortion and death penalty, check. Tobacco, check. Health care? Eh, is that a big deal these days?


Add to the fact that the death penalty and education are mostly state issues over which congress has little influence.
Be Bold!

TenuredVulture
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
 
Posts: 53243
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 00:16:10
Location: Magnolia, AR

Postby dajafi » Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:54:50

jerseyhoya wrote:
* Abortion
* Death Penalty
* Education Reform
* First Amendment
* Gas Prices
* Gun Control
* Homeland Security
* Immigration Reform
* Social Security Program Participation
* Taxes
* Tobacco


The issues that the member of Congress I'm doing research on today has on the drop down menu on his Congressional homepage. So, abortion and death penalty, check. Tobacco, check. Health care? Eh, is that a big deal these days?


Hey, I'm pleasantly surprised that Teh Gayz isn't on there.

Economy seems maybe kinda relevant as well. But it's just so much more fun to demonize immigrants...

dajafi
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 24567
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 20:03:18
Location: Brooklyn

Postby Werthless » Tue Sep 22, 2009 14:29:56

Werthless wrote:
dajafi wrote:He was the worst president in our history, but I have to admit Bush had some pretty okay lines:

The president didn’t think much of Joe Biden either. “Dana, did you tell them my line?” the president once asked with a smile on his face.

“No, Mr. President,” Dana replied hesitantly. “I didn’t.”

He paused for a minute. I could see him thinking maybe he shouldn’t say it, but he couldn’t resist. “If [BS] was currency,” he said straight-faced, “Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” Everyone in the room burst out laughing.
...
I was about to be engulfed by a tidal wave of Palin euphoria when someone—someone I didn’t expect—planted my feet back on the ground. After Palin’s selection was announced, the same people who demanded I acknowledge the brilliance of McCain’s choice expected the president to join them in their high-fiving tizzy. It was clear, though, that the president, ever the skilled politician, had concerns about the choice of Palin, which he called “interesting.” That was the equivalent of calling a fireworks display “satisfactory.”

“I’m trying to remember if I’ve met her before. I’m sure I must have.” His eyes twinkled, then he asked, “What is she, the governor of Guam?”

Everyone in the room seemed to look at him in horror, their mouths agape. When Ed told him that conservatives were greeting the choice enthusiastically, he replied, “Look, I’m a team player, I’m on board.” He thought about it for a minute. “She’s interesting,” he said again. “You know, just wait a few days until the bloom is off the rose.” Then he made a very smart assessment.

“This woman is being put into a position she is not even remotely prepared for,” he said. “She hasn’t spent one day on the national level. Neither has her family. Let’s wait and see how she looks five days out.” It was a rare dose of reality in a White House that liked to believe every decision was great, every Republican was a genius, and McCain was the hope of the world because, well, because he chose to be a member of our party.

This entire article was filled with gems. It's no cruel hoax.
As Treasury started to use the bailout funds to invest directly in financial institutions, Ed wanted to come up with a name for the plan that made it sound better to the public, particularly conservatives who thought this was nothing more than warmed-over socialism. Yes, a catchphrase would solve everything. As we were working on this, Ed called a few of the writers on speakerphone with the idea he’d come up with: the Imperative Investment Intervention. “Oh, that sounds good,” one of us remarked, as the rest of us tried not to laugh. We decided that if a catchphrase must be deployed, surely we could come up with something better than a tongue twister with the acronym III. We started out with dark humor: the “I Can’t Believe It’s Not Capitalism” Plan; the MARX Plan. I suggested that we also apologize to the former Soviet Union and retroactively concede the Cold War. Then one of the writers got serious and came up with the Temporary Emergency Market Protection Program, or TEMP. Not bad as gimmicks go, and Ed liked it. But he decided that instead of dropping it into a speech, we’d leak it to the press that this was the phrase we were using internally. Ed’s logic was that anything Bush said would be ignored, but if the press thought they’d got it from a leak, they’d find it more interesting and newsworthy. TEMP never made it as a catchphrase regardless.


Followup/rebuttal

Werthless
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 12968
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 16:07:07

Postby TenuredVulture » Tue Sep 22, 2009 15:29:14

I think that McGurn comes off the worse for writing and publishing this. He comes across mean and petty.

Comments are somewhat revealing. Or not. Who knows what really happened.
Be Bold!

TenuredVulture
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
 
Posts: 53243
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 00:16:10
Location: Magnolia, AR

Postby swishnicholson » Tue Sep 22, 2009 15:50:49

TenuredVulture wrote:I think that McGurn comes off the worse for writing and publishing this. He comes across mean and petty.

Comments are somewhat revealing. Or not. Who knows what really happened.


I suppose I should be pithy and just say QFT, but instead I'll remark that this was my reaction as well.
"No woman can call herself free who does not control her own body."

swishnicholson
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 39187
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 22:56:15
Location: First I was like....And then I was like...

Postby drsmooth » Tue Sep 22, 2009 16:16:33

Harpua wrote:I'm not trying to turn this into a whole big issue, but yeah, the writing in the public post paragraph made it hard to understand. Now seems like a fine time to link to this: http://www.pickthebrain.com/blog/george ... e-writing/


George Orwell is a poncy wanker. Barzun is the rhetorical man.

I appreciate you fellows' sincere interest in improving my writing. No offense intended, but I've earned praise for my scribbling, often enough, from sources whose judgment I regard as more credible.
Yes, but in a double utley you can put your utley on top they other guy's utley, and you're the winner. (Swish)

drsmooth
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 47349
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 19:24:48
Location: Low station

Postby TenuredVulture » Tue Sep 22, 2009 16:25:30

I really thought that Doc Smooth's comment wasn't all that obscure. I didn't much care for the etc. at the end though.

I might revise it slightly:

services like public post embody the nexus between economic and political activity, and test the persuasive powers of those who like their ideological abstractions transferred to the world of living breathing people unmodified and unsullied by inconvenient habits, customs, and mores.

But I'm not sure I've really improved it. Does nexus take the preposition between?
Be Bold!

TenuredVulture
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
 
Posts: 53243
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 00:16:10
Location: Magnolia, AR

Postby allentown » Tue Sep 22, 2009 16:27:27

Werthless wrote:
Werthless wrote:
dajafi wrote:He was the worst president in our history, but I have to admit Bush had some pretty okay lines:

The president didn’t think much of Joe Biden either. “Dana, did you tell them my line?” the president once asked with a smile on his face.

“No, Mr. President,” Dana replied hesitantly. “I didn’t.”

He paused for a minute. I could see him thinking maybe he shouldn’t say it, but he couldn’t resist. “If [BS] was currency,” he said straight-faced, “Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” Everyone in the room burst out laughing.
...
I was about to be engulfed by a tidal wave of Palin euphoria when someone—someone I didn’t expect—planted my feet back on the ground. After Palin’s selection was announced, the same people who demanded I acknowledge the brilliance of McCain’s choice expected the president to join them in their high-fiving tizzy. It was clear, though, that the president, ever the skilled politician, had concerns about the choice of Palin, which he called “interesting.” That was the equivalent of calling a fireworks display “satisfactory.”

“I’m trying to remember if I’ve met her before. I’m sure I must have.” His eyes twinkled, then he asked, “What is she, the governor of Guam?”

Everyone in the room seemed to look at him in horror, their mouths agape. When Ed told him that conservatives were greeting the choice enthusiastically, he replied, “Look, I’m a team player, I’m on board.” He thought about it for a minute. “She’s interesting,” he said again. “You know, just wait a few days until the bloom is off the rose.” Then he made a very smart assessment.

“This woman is being put into a position she is not even remotely prepared for,” he said. “She hasn’t spent one day on the national level. Neither has her family. Let’s wait and see how she looks five days out.” It was a rare dose of reality in a White House that liked to believe every decision was great, every Republican was a genius, and McCain was the hope of the world because, well, because he chose to be a member of our party.

This entire article was filled with gems. It's no cruel hoax.
As Treasury started to use the bailout funds to invest directly in financial institutions, Ed wanted to come up with a name for the plan that made it sound better to the public, particularly conservatives who thought this was nothing more than warmed-over socialism. Yes, a catchphrase would solve everything. As we were working on this, Ed called a few of the writers on speakerphone with the idea he’d come up with: the Imperative Investment Intervention. “Oh, that sounds good,” one of us remarked, as the rest of us tried not to laugh. We decided that if a catchphrase must be deployed, surely we could come up with something better than a tongue twister with the acronym III. We started out with dark humor: the “I Can’t Believe It’s Not Capitalism” Plan; the MARX Plan. I suggested that we also apologize to the former Soviet Union and retroactively concede the Cold War. Then one of the writers got serious and came up with the Temporary Emergency Market Protection Program, or TEMP. Not bad as gimmicks go, and Ed liked it. But he decided that instead of dropping it into a speech, we’d leak it to the press that this was the phrase we were using internally. Ed’s logic was that anything Bush said would be ignored, but if the press thought they’d got it from a leak, they’d find it more interesting and newsworthy. TEMP never made it as a catchphrase regardless.


Followup/rebuttal

There really is no rebuttal of content here. This is 'shoot the messenger' plain and simple. Assassinating the character of the messenger, while not even attempting to point out factual inaccuracies in his tale, is really tantamount to validating the original critique. The best McGurn does is to explain that there are reasons why Rumsfeld was portrayed as better than we know him to be. That youngsters in the West Wing have a jumped up sense of self importance and that telling tales out of school for personal gain is not a testament to their character is nothing newsy.
We now know that Amaro really is running the Phillies. He and Monty seem to have ignored the committee.
allentown
There's Our Old Friend
There's Our Old Friend
 
Posts: 1633
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 21:04:16
Location: Allentown, PA

Postby drsmooth » Tue Sep 22, 2009 16:32:28

TenuredVulture wrote:I really thought that Doc Smooth's comment wasn't all that obscure. I didn't much care for the etc. at the end though.

I might revise it slightly:

services like public post embody the nexus between economic and political activity, and test the persuasive powers of those who like their ideological abstractions transferred to the world of living breathing people unmodified and unsullied by inconvenient habits, customs, and mores.

But I'm not sure I've really improved it. Does nexus take the preposition between?


NOW we're talking constructive criticism!

I'm with you, TV - the use of nexus does need an overhaul: "services like public post are at the nexus of", maybe? (though I could insist that, since dictionary.com uses the "nexus between" formulation, citing an example from no less than the Wall Street Journal, I have grounds for defending the original).

I'm holding out for my flippant "etc", though, because hey - it's just a message board.
Yes, but in a double utley you can put your utley on top they other guy's utley, and you're the winner. (Swish)

drsmooth
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 47349
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 19:24:48
Location: Low station

PreviousNext