Condescension, Flaming, Politics (in that order) Here

Postby Woody » Tue May 26, 2009 22:04:47

:mrgreen:
you sure do seem to have a lot of time on your hands to be on this forum? Do you have a job? Are you a shut-in?

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Postby kruker » Tue May 26, 2009 22:58:01

[url=http://www.walrusmagazine.com/articles/2009.06-energy-an-inconvenient-talk/]An Inconvenient Talk

Dave Hughes’s guide to the end of the fossil fuel age[/url]

Peak oil talk.

Speaking of which, I wanted to read a horror novel over the summer so I finally ordered "The Long Emergency" off Amazon, so I might be droppin' Kunstler references pretty soon.

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Postby dajafi » Tue May 26, 2009 23:01:07

kruker wrote:[url=http://www.walrusmagazine.com/articles/2009.06-energy-an-inconvenient-talk/]An Inconvenient Talk

Dave Hughes’s guide to the end of the fossil fuel age[/url]

Peak oil talk.

Speaking of which, I wanted to read a horror novel over the summer so I finally ordered "The Long Emergency" off Amazon, so I might be droppin' Kunstler references pretty soon.


Sweet

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Postby kruker » Wed May 27, 2009 00:03:48

I'm a sucker for cool facts, and this one just about takes it:

As he drives, Dave indulges in a little academic exercise. He’s comfortable with numbers, quick with calculations. A barrel of oil, he tells you, contains about six gigajoules of energy. That’s six billion joules. Put your average healthy Albertan on a treadmill and wire it to a generator, and in an hour the guy could produce about 100 watts of energy. That’s 360,000 joules. Pay the guy the provincial minimum wage, give him breaks and weekends and statutory holidays off, and it would take 8.6 years for him to produce one barrel of oil equivalent (boe, the standard unit of measure in hydrocarbon circles). And you’d owe him $138,363 in wages. That, Dave tells you, is what a barrel of oil is worth.

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Postby drsmooth » Wed May 27, 2009 00:59:47

Werthless wrote:Unless he was making a racial pun with backboards (are they usually white?), I don't have a problem with it. The SCOTUS judges have very little time for each case's oral arguments, as I understand it, so they pepper the lawyers with questions and cut them off when they have their answer. Why would I be bothered by it?


because you professed earlier to be all het up about intimations of superiority by some candidate for one of the 9 chairs. I supposed, apparently incorrectly, that your dudgeon was inspired by the presumption of superiority, rather than the particular person presuming it.
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Postby TenuredVulture » Wed May 27, 2009 09:34:20

kruker wrote:I'm a sucker for cool facts, and this one just about takes it:

As he drives, Dave indulges in a little academic exercise. He’s comfortable with numbers, quick with calculations. A barrel of oil, he tells you, contains about six gigajoules of energy. That’s six billion joules. Put your average healthy Albertan on a treadmill and wire it to a generator, and in an hour the guy could produce about 100 watts of energy. That’s 360,000 joules. Pay the guy the provincial minimum wage, give him breaks and weekends and statutory holidays off, and it would take 8.6 years for him to produce one barrel of oil equivalent (boe, the standard unit of measure in hydrocarbon circles). And you’d owe him $138,363 in wages. That, Dave tells you, is what a barrel of oil is worth.


Everytime I go to the gym, I wonder about all the energy wasted there. Especially the treadmills--you have to plug them in!
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Postby VoxOrion » Wed May 27, 2009 09:43:57

Gapminder is really, really cool. I could get lost for hours. I don't know about the videos, I'm mainly playing with the "explore the world" maps.
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Postby Stay_Disappointed » Wed May 27, 2009 10:02:48

dajafi wrote:I think the reason the New Haven decision rankles so many people--including me, though I haven't looked at it in so much detail that I'd feel particularly confident expressing a strong opinion--is because it hints at a preference beyond "if all else is equal, we will nod toward greater diversity/inclusiveness/righting past wrongs." My understanding is that Sotomayor cast a vote with the majority but wasn't anything like a crusader on the question.

jerseyhoya wrote:I guess at the end of the day, there are supposed to be nine justices on the Supreme Court, and I don't think it is like there are 9 lawyers who stand out clearly from the hundreds of appeals court judges, top notch law professors and others who would be under consideration for appointment. And among the dozens who stand out and could ably serve in the capacity, I'm sure there are African Americans, Hispanics, women. I imagine looking at Sotomayer's resume she's in that group.


Right. I read something recently, by I think Ezra Klein, that sort of made this point in a different way: it's never the case that the president tries to pick the single most qualified person to serve on the Court, and even were it possible to identify that person, the president probably wouldn't go that route. Beyond a certain standard of competence, inevitably it's going to be a political/philosophical choice.

This is why, for instance, the prospect of Justice Miers bugged the hell out of me, while the idea of Justice Alito (Phillies love aside) didn't, even given that he was likely a much more committed conservative. My sense was he deserved to be there, and as McCain evidently said today in reference to Sotomayor, "elections have consequences."


Elections have consequences. Yet Obama picks a nominee that by all accounts is a moderate liberal, someone who is very close to Souter in philosophy. Then to make things more laughable the right makes like they are going to put up a fight, criticizing her on ridiculous issues? They should be happy Obama didn't nominiate a lefty version of Scalia or Roberts...which I don't understand why he didn't. It seems like he continues to pander to the right although the right will never agree him and fight the Dems to the death on all their core issues. It will be very interesting to see Obama's next nomination to the court.

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Postby Woody » Wed May 27, 2009 10:23:58

I happened to hear Hannity for about 11 seconds after work yesterday, and he was going on about how "THIS IS BY FAR THE MOST RADICAL SUPREME COURT NOMINEE WE HAVE SEEN" etc... etc...
you sure do seem to have a lot of time on your hands to be on this forum? Do you have a job? Are you a shut-in?

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Postby hoya » Wed May 27, 2009 10:44:17

Sotomayor certainly doesn't seem that radical. If anything, the complaint should be that she apparently isn't just isn't overly talented relative to other candidates. I'm sure she'll be an OK justice, but she doesn't appear to have any outstanding characteristics.

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Postby Werthless » Wed May 27, 2009 11:10:30

drsmooth wrote:
Werthless wrote:Unless he was making a racial pun with backboards (are they usually white?), I don't have a problem with it. The SCOTUS judges have very little time for each case's oral arguments, as I understand it, so they pepper the lawyers with questions and cut them off when they have their answer. Why would I be bothered by it?


because you professed earlier to be all het up about intimations of superiority by some candidate for one of the 9 chairs. I supposed, apparently incorrectly, that your dudgeon was inspired by the presumption of superiority, rather than the particular person presuming it.

I don't have a problem with a person thinking, correctly or incorrectly, that he/she is smarter than someone else. I have a problem with someone thinking that a class of people is smarter than another class (particularly when this perception is not based on scientific or analytical evidence, but observation), and then acting on this stereotype.
Last edited by Werthless on Wed May 27, 2009 11:25:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Werthless » Wed May 27, 2009 11:14:36

Warszawa wrote:Elections have consequences. Yet Obama picks a nominee that by all accounts is a moderate liberal, someone who is very close to Souter in philosophy. Then to make things more laughable the right makes like they are going to put up a fight, criticizing her on ridiculous issues? They should be happy Obama didn't nominiate a lefty version of Scalia or Roberts...which I don't understand why he didn't. It seems like he continues to pander to the right although the right will never agree him and fight the Dems to the death on all their core issues. It will be very interesting to see Obama's next nomination to the court.

I don't really read news or blogs from right wing sources, but what criticisms are ridiculous? I hated the finding on the firefighter case (not in a legal reasoning sense, but in "what this will result in down the line"), and that was before I knew anything about Sotomayor.

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Postby kruker » Wed May 27, 2009 11:18:41

VoxOrion wrote:Gapminder is really, really cool. I could get lost for hours. I don't know about the videos, I'm mainly playing with the "explore the world" maps.


If you've got time check out this talk by Hans Rosling the founder of Gapminder.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVimVzgtD6w[/youtube]

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Postby allentown » Wed May 27, 2009 11:44:00

lethal wrote:
Werthless wrote:Unless he was making a racial pun with backboards (are they usually white?), I don't have a problem with it. The SCOTUS judges have very little time for each case's oral arguments, as I understand it, so they pepper the lawyers with questions and cut them off when they have their answer. Why would I be bothered by it?


I think in 95% of the cases, the Justices have made up their minds by the time the oral arguments are even made, just based on the briefs and their (clerks') research. This was true when I was clerking (for a non-federal intermediate appellate court, so not even close to the US Supreme Court).

The study above might even be a result of majority Justices asking more questions to find more support against the weaker position or the minority to find more support that they can use in a dissent. That's my personal experience, again, in a different, much lower court.

I think just about every justice knows how s/he is going to vote and has guessed how colleagues are likely to vote and whether it is likely to be a broad or narrow decision prior to voting on whether or not to accept a case. It is a myth perpetrated by the Republican Right that their Supreme Court justices just go by the letter of the Constitution, while Dems nominate liberal activists who don't. Almost all Justices have seemed to push their personal legal/political philosphy and written opinions that are after-the-fact justification. This notion that their are strict constructionist judges who work like engineers just doing the math and concluding what the facts and written Constitution dictate the answer must be is silly. The SC stepping in to award Florida to Bush was blatant activism and ignoring of states' rights.
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Postby TenuredVulture » Wed May 27, 2009 11:59:40

allentown wrote:
lethal wrote:
Werthless wrote:Unless he was making a racial pun with backboards (are they usually white?), I don't have a problem with it. The SCOTUS judges have very little time for each case's oral arguments, as I understand it, so they pepper the lawyers with questions and cut them off when they have their answer. Why would I be bothered by it?


I think in 95% of the cases, the Justices have made up their minds by the time the oral arguments are even made, just based on the briefs and their (clerks') research. This was true when I was clerking (for a non-federal intermediate appellate court, so not even close to the US Supreme Court).

The study above might even be a result of majority Justices asking more questions to find more support against the weaker position or the minority to find more support that they can use in a dissent. That's my personal experience, again, in a different, much lower court.

I think just about every justice knows how s/he is going to vote and has guessed how colleagues are likely to vote and whether it is likely to be a broad or narrow decision prior to voting on whether or not to accept a case. It is a myth perpetrated by the Republican Right that their Supreme Court justices just go by the letter of the Constitution, while Dems nominate liberal activists who don't. Almost all Justices have seemed to push their personal legal/political philosphy and written opinions that are after-the-fact justification. This notion that their are strict constructionist judges who work like engineers just doing the math and concluding what the facts and written Constitution dictate the answer must be is silly. The SC stepping in to award Florida to Bush was blatant activism and ignoring of states' rights.


Right. All talk about judicial philosophy (federalism, originalism, strict constructionist, activist, etc.) in terms other than liberal/conservative are nothing but a smokescreen. The one place where it seems to matter a little bit has been over executive power. But even there it's pretty weak.
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Postby dajafi » Wed May 27, 2009 12:34:06

Warszawa wrote:Elections have consequences. Yet Obama picks a nominee that by all accounts is a moderate liberal, someone who is very close to Souter in philosophy. Then to make things more laughable the right makes like they are going to put up a fight, criticizing her on ridiculous issues? They should be happy Obama didn't nominiate a lefty version of Scalia or Roberts...which I don't understand why he didn't. It seems like he continues to pander to the right although the right will never agree him and fight the Dems to the death on all their core issues. It will be very interesting to see Obama's next nomination to the court.


I'm somewhat skeptical of the whole "Obama is playing a long game" school of thinking, which apologists often use to justify this or that action with which they might not agree. But I sort of buy one component of that notion--that by peeling off people like Huntsman to be ambassador to China, bringing in Specter, and cultivating people like Crist among the electeds and David Brooks among the pundits, he's trying to winnow "the right" down to a hardcore, reflexively obstructionist rump that eventually most people won't even take seriously.

A key part of this, obviously, is to come off as unthreatening. Every attack from the Limbaugh/Hannity/Beck hard right and the various official Republican entities is fear-based: Obama's economic policies will turn us toward Bolshevism! His national security decisions will enable The Turr'ists to hit us again! He's going to pack the courts with Darker-Hued Radical Activist Feminazis! Taking steps like nominating a moderate with an inspirational life story casts those charges in the appropriately absurd light.

Or, to put it another way:

Like the president who picked her, Sonia Sotomayor’s nomination to the Supreme Court manages to be both historic and conventional.
...
George Washington University law professor Orin Kerr called her “a liberal mirror image of Samuel Alito” — a child of the meritocracy with a resume that is big on credentials and low on controversy.

It’s hard to be breathtaking and boring, but Obama somehow finds a way.
...
Sotomayor is already meeting with resistance among many conservatives, but that she’s an acceptable liberal instead of a controversial radical is being affirmed by the majority of Republican senators who are issuing statements of caution instead of concern.

Obama, with his usual combination of professorial coolness and political calculation, has stayed within the judiciary’s 40-yard lines while also squeezing the opposition in a manner that would make a Chicago ward heeler smile.

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Postby jerseyhoya » Wed May 27, 2009 12:51:36

So she's a moderate now?

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Postby dajafi » Wed May 27, 2009 13:04:48

jerseyhoya wrote:So she's a moderate now?


Moderate liberal. Not very different from Souter, at least the Souter on the Court.

Honestly, is there anyone who was considered a remotely plausible candidate that the far right wouldn't have characterized as an activist?

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Postby Werthless » Wed May 27, 2009 13:10:13


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Postby drsmooth » Wed May 27, 2009 13:14:03

Werthless wrote:
drsmooth wrote:
Werthless wrote:Unless he was making a racial pun with backboards (are they usually white?), I don't have a problem with it. The SCOTUS judges have very little time for each case's oral arguments, as I understand it, so they pepper the lawyers with questions and cut them off when they have their answer. Why would I be bothered by it?


because you professed earlier to be all het up about intimations of superiority by some candidate for one of the 9 chairs. I supposed, apparently incorrectly, that your dudgeon was inspired by the presumption of superiority, rather than the particular person presuming it.

I don't have a problem with a person thinking, correctly or incorrectly, that he/she is smarter than someone else. I have a problem with someone thinking that a class of people is smarter than another class (particularly when this perception is not based on scientific or analytical evidence, but observation), and then acting on this stereotype.


please stop the pusillanimous prevaricating. Roberts didn't say HE used contending attorneys as backboards; he said Sup Ct judges - the whole dress-clad mob of them - did so. That is, the "class" of judges - and their beliefs, opinions, backgrounds, etc is smarter, better, more worthy than the class of - well, he probably meant everyone else.

Modeling Roberts future juridical performance from this snippet is every bit as credible as modeling Sotomayor's future rulings from the particular bone you're worrying.

You may have reasonable concerns about Sotomayor, but at least express them in something other than tarted-up Limbaughble.
Last edited by drsmooth on Wed May 27, 2009 13:25:41, edited 1 time in total.
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