Wiz, are you a pacifist?

No.

jeff2sf wrote:Wiz, are you a pacifist?

Do you feel that pacificism is related to opposition to the war on terror?

So no House Republicans voted for the stimulus. Good.

jerseyhoya wrote:So no House Republicans voted for the stimulus. Good.

Except that if the Stimulus works, the only place you'll find House Republicans is Utah and Oklahoma.

TenuredVulture wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:So no House Republicans voted for the stimulus. Good.

Except that if the Stimulus works, the only place you'll find House Republicans is Utah and Oklahoma.

If the economy comes back, Obama gets the credit regardless of how many Republicans vote for it. If it continues to fail, it can be all his.

jerseyhoya wrote:So no House Republicans voted for the stimulus. Good.

In that vein, from the Cato Institute:

Mr. President, We Disagree

jerseyhoya wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:So no House Republicans voted for the stimulus. Good.

Except that if the Stimulus works, the only place you'll find House Republicans is Utah and Oklahoma.

If the economy comes back, Obama gets the credit regardless of how many Republicans vote for it. If it continues to fail, it can be all his.

We should definitely be most concerned with who will actually get the credit for an economic comeback, not with actually trying to fix the giant fucking flaming debacle

I was about to say what Woody just said.

Woody wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:So no House Republicans voted for the stimulus. Good.

Except that if the Stimulus works, the only place you'll find House Republicans is Utah and Oklahoma.

If the economy comes back, Obama gets the credit regardless of how many Republicans vote for it. If it continues to fail, it can be all his.

We should definitely be most concerned with who will actually get the credit for an economic comeback, not with actually trying to fix the giant $#@! flaming debacle

House Republicans should, yes. If they're not going to incorporate their changes, and it is going to pass either way, then they should care more about who gets the credit and vote accordingly.

I didn't post this in the economics thread.

Thank you for reminding me why I got out of campaign politics.

Thank you Mr. Bush!!!!

Does this mean we can stop the "PA is a swing state" myth?

VoxOrion wrote:Does this mean we can stop the "PA is a swing state" myth?

Actually, not really. Well, yes, you can, because PA will vote Republican in a huge Republican year, but then it won't matter.

But the map is very much a best case scenario for the Dems, and doesn't really apply to Presidential votes--it really only applies to state level elections--governors primarily, and to somewhat lesser extent, House and Senate elections.

The only thing Republican left in PA is the legislature due to how the districts are set up. PA is no more a swing state than New Jersey. Outside of Lancaster/HBG there is no Republican stronghold which is not losing population. York is increasing but being influenced by Maryland politics.

pacino wrote:The only thing Republican left in PA is the legislature due to how the districts are set up. PA is no more a swing state than New Jersey. Outside of Lancaster/HBG there is no Republican stronghold which is not losing population. York is increasing but being influenced by Maryland politics.

Can we keep the saying "Philadelphia and Pittsburgh with Alabama in between" or does that go out the window as well? I can recall hearing that in 3-4 different poli sci classes, and then someone would inevitably ask what part of PA I was from and I'd have to put my head down and say "Alabama".

kruker wrote:

pacino wrote:The only thing Republican left in PA is the legislature due to how the districts are set up. PA is no more a swing state than New Jersey. Outside of Lancaster/HBG there is no Republican stronghold which is not losing population. York is increasing but being influenced by Maryland politics.

Can we keep the saying "Philadelphia and Pittsburgh with Alabama in between" or does that go out the window as well? I can recall hearing that in 3-4 different poli sci classes, and then someone would inevitably ask what part of PA I was from and I'd have to put my head down and say "Alabama".

It's a clever quip--I'm pretty sure it was Carville who said it, but in today's political environment with a fractured conservative coalition it isn't very meaningful.

Rural Pennsylvanians remain rather conservative on social issues, but they bear little resemblance in most respects to Southern Evangelicals, and even less resemblance to the exurban sun belt mega church conservatism found in places like DFW metroplex.

TenuredVulture wrote:

kruker wrote:

pacino wrote:The only thing Republican left in PA is the legislature due to how the districts are set up. PA is no more a swing state than New Jersey. Outside of Lancaster/HBG there is no Republican stronghold which is not losing population. York is increasing but being influenced by Maryland politics.

Can we keep the saying "Philadelphia and Pittsburgh with Alabama in between" or does that go out the window as well? I can recall hearing that in 3-4 different poli sci classes, and then someone would inevitably ask what part of PA I was from and I'd have to put my head down and say "Alabama".

It's a clever quip--I'm pretty sure it was Carville who said it, but in today's political environment with a fractured conservative coalition it isn't very meaningful.

Rural Pennsylvanians remain rather conservative on social issues, but they bear little resemblance in most respects to Southern Evangelicals, and even less resemblance to the exurban sun belt mega church conservatism found in places like DFW metroplex.

Sounds like you haven't spent much time in Lancaster County.

Anyway, PA is a weird state with a lot of different regions with a lot of different political atmospheres. It's tough to nail down, but to paint it with a broad brush I'd say there's blue-collar
old fashioned' democratic politics in pittsburgh, a mix of old fashioned and new school liberal politics in philly, and the latter is slowly spreading through the burbs. lancaster is its own entity. scranton down through allentown is bob casey blue. the rest of hte state is sort of meaningless is statewide elections, but they're more of the types tv is talking about.

pacino wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:

kruker wrote:

pacino wrote:The only thing Republican left in PA is the legislature due to how the districts are set up. PA is no more a swing state than New Jersey. Outside of Lancaster/HBG there is no Republican stronghold which is not losing population. York is increasing but being influenced by Maryland politics.

Can we keep the saying "Philadelphia and Pittsburgh with Alabama in between" or does that go out the window as well? I can recall hearing that in 3-4 different poli sci classes, and then someone would inevitably ask what part of PA I was from and I'd have to put my head down and say "Alabama".

It's a clever quip--I'm pretty sure it was Carville who said it, but in today's political environment with a fractured conservative coalition it isn't very meaningful.

Rural Pennsylvanians remain rather conservative on social issues, but they bear little resemblance in most respects to Southern Evangelicals, and even less resemblance to the exurban sun belt mega church conservatism found in places like DFW metroplex.

Sounds like you haven't spent much time in Lancaster County.

Anyway, PA is a weird state with a lot of different regions with a lot of different political atmospheres. It's tough to nail down, but to paint it with a broad brush I'd say there's blue-collar
old fashioned' democratic politics in pittsburgh, a mix of old fashioned and new school liberal politics in philly, and the latter is slowly spreading through the burbs. lancaster is its own entity. scranton down through allentown is bob casey blue. the rest of hte state is sort of meaningless is statewide elections, but they're more of the types tv is talking about.

Lancaster County still has a large Republican majority, but the margin has become much smaller as more east coast metro transplants move in. In statewide elections, Republicans need gigantic margins in Lancaster, which they have not gotten the past few cycles.

There aren't a ton of Democrats there, but the ones who do live there tend to be east coast metro Dems rather than Pittsburgh lunchpail Dems; Lancaster was one of the few counties aside from Philadelphia and Allegheny that Obama carried in PA in the Democratic Primary.

I didn't realize that he won in the primary, cool stuff.

I sort of meant in the 'religious right' portion. The edges of Berks County, Lancaster County and Lebanon County houses some mighty interesting churches.