livestock, lipstick, and liquidity: politics thread

Postby BuddyGroom » Fri Sep 19, 2008 15:20:56

Laexile wrote:
BuddyGroom wrote:I guess people have seen the big swing back toward Obama at 538.com

Not unexpected. McCain's bump was attributed to his convention bounce. That usually wears off. They are back pretty much where they were before the conventions.


Yes, but I don't think it's just the bump wearing off. I think it's also the economic upheaval reminding a lot of middle-of-the-road voters of why they are uneasy about the Republicans.
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Postby TenuredVulture » Fri Sep 19, 2008 15:31:04

Do rich people really over use health care? Are there really people out there who have so much time (assuming they pay nothing) they run to the doctor all the time? I don't know any people like that. Frankly, I have this dumb dental plan (I should probably drop it, as it's not subsidized by my employer, but that's another story) that provides to "free" check ups a year. Guess what? I haven't gone in awhile. It's time out of my day, it's unpleasant (maybe if the hygienist was like the ones in the movie with a latex outfit and cleavage I'd be more willing to go) and really, isn't going to the doctor pretty much the same thing?

I mean, I know that when I turn 50 I'm supposed to get a colonoscopy, but I really don't want to go.

I suppose I did take that free flu shot last year my employer offered though.
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Postby Houshphandzadeh » Fri Sep 19, 2008 15:34:29

Anecdotally, people at my workplace do seem to go to the doctor for every trivial thing. They also look down on me for not going over affliction I'm sure will heal on it's own.

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Postby TenuredVulture » Fri Sep 19, 2008 15:36:07

dajafi wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Thanks for linking to that, dajafi. I especially liked the denial of evolution and denial of free trade parallel. :lol:


I did too. Dude can write.


It's not really that novel an idea. It's a good one though.
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Postby TenuredVulture » Fri Sep 19, 2008 15:36:47

Houshphandzadeh wrote:Anecdotally, people at my workplace do seem to go to the doctor for every trivial thing. They also look down on me for not going over affliction I'm sure will heal on it's own.


I think there's a fetish where people get off on going to the doctor. Maybe your co-workers are like that.
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Postby jerseyhoya » Fri Sep 19, 2008 15:48:54

TenuredVulture wrote:
dajafi wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Thanks for linking to that, dajafi. I especially liked the denial of evolution and denial of free trade parallel. :lol:


I did too. Dude can write.


It's not really that novel an idea. It's a good one though.


I used it in the last thread.

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Postby TenuredVulture » Fri Sep 19, 2008 15:49:39

jerseyhoya wrote:
TenuredVulture wrote:
dajafi wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Thanks for linking to that, dajafi. I especially liked the denial of evolution and denial of free trade parallel. :lol:


I did too. Dude can write.


It's not really that novel an idea. It's a good one though.


I used it in the last thread.


It goes back farther than that.
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Postby jerseyhoya » Fri Sep 19, 2008 16:09:52

TenuredVulture wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
TenuredVulture wrote:
dajafi wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Thanks for linking to that, dajafi. I especially liked the denial of evolution and denial of free trade parallel. :lol:


I did too. Dude can write.


It's not really that novel an idea. It's a good one though.


I used it in the last thread.


It goes back farther than that.


It was a jerseyhoya original as far as I'm concerned.

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Postby Camp Holdout » Fri Sep 19, 2008 16:11:31

no one has brought up that john mccain didn't know who prime minister zapatero was in an interview on miami radio right?

meh... it can only hurt him. the young turks had a nice little recap of it on their show. you can search for the original radio clip. its kinda boring, but also weird and uncomfortable for mccain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKOUMUGS_6M

it actually led to things like this:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/artic ... _on_spain/

hilarious to me. seriously. he didn't know who the guy was. amazing. its like he could get us into war by accident.

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Postby Camp Holdout » Fri Sep 19, 2008 16:29:44

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/arc ... patero.php

figured i would have to sum it up there. since to be fair to mccain, he is claiming that he knew exactly what the interviewer was talking about (really hard to believe) and that he wouldnt commit to a meeting...

im going to faint.

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Postby dajafi » Fri Sep 19, 2008 16:47:16

The Zapatero thing is at least a little embarrassing, and I guess if you want to see it in a certain way it points to McCain's susceptibility to "senior moments" and inadequate command of detail. But it doesn't feel like a huge deal to me: if he screwed up, he screwed up. He's human. Obama has misspoken at times; everyone does.

What's more interesting, and to me disturbing, is the evident neocon loathing of Spain, I guess for withdrawing their troops after the March 2004 bombing at the Madrid train station. This Scheunemann is a bad guy, and not someone I'd want anywhere near the ear of the president.

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Postby threecount » Fri Sep 19, 2008 17:17:21

Gov. Sarah Palin's favorable/unfavorable ratings have suffered a stunning 21 point collapse in just one week, according to Research 2000 polling. Last week, 52% approved and 35% disapproved of the GOP vice presidential nominee (+17 net). This week, 42% approved and 46% disapprove (-4 net).

Earlier this week, Newsweek also saw the drop in other polling. "Over the course of a single weekend... Palin went from being the most popular White House hopeful to the least."

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Postby pacino » Fri Sep 19, 2008 17:30:10

BUT HOW WILL SHE DO IN THE RING?!
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Postby phdave » Fri Sep 19, 2008 18:12:04

dajafi wrote:My point is that there's blame to go around for the dismal state of the national conversation.


Yes, don't just focus on McCain. His campaign managers also should be blamed. And don't forget Cindy.
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Postby dajafi » Fri Sep 19, 2008 19:51:01

Image

While this is good news in the sense that it's favorable for my candidate, in another I think it just kind of makes me doubt Nate's model. Obama gained something like 25 points of "win percentage" in two days!

edit: on a related point, the skepticism I'm feeling toward these numbers is EXACTLY the same gut reaction I have to BP's putting the Phillies playoff odds at 88.8 percent.

Worlds are colliding!

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Postby The Dude » Fri Sep 19, 2008 20:13:54

I asked this before, and didn't get an answer, and I missed the deadline on the last politics thread, but how is Ron Paul a "crazy" libertarian? Looking at all his beliefs, he's the definition of a libertarian. So why is someone like RT, who is a self-proclaimed libertarian, calling him a bad example? Thanks in advance.
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Postby phdave » Fri Sep 19, 2008 20:16:11

dajafi wrote:While this is good news in the sense that it's favorable for my candidate, in another I think it just kind of makes me doubt Nate's model. Obama gained something like 25 points of "win percentage" in two days!


Did you read this?

On the strength of an abundance of state and national polling, Barack Obama has retaken the lead in our Electoral College projection. Our model now forecasts him to win the election 61.2 percent of the time; it also gives him a slight, half-point advantage in the popular vote. Yesterday, Obama was projected to win the Electoral College just 45 percent of the time, so this is a rather dramatic move upward.

How can the numbers move so sharply in just 24 hours? I have tweaked the model slightly at a couple of points recently in order to make it more sensitive to new information. But these adjustments are very minor, and their effects are fairly trivial. The principal reasons these numbers have become more volatile are twofold. Firstly, we're finally getting into crunch time. The closer we get to the election, the smaller the true margins of error in the polls, so relatively small advantages can become more meaningful. But secondly, we have a lot more data to look at. If Barack Obama looks like he's moved up a point or two between two or three polls, that may not be particularly meaningful, and our model will tend to treat it as noise. If, on the other hand, Obama appears to have gained a point or two between 20 or 30 polls, which is what we're getting on a daily basis nowadays, we can say with more certainty that a real shift in the electorate has occurred.
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Postby phdave » Fri Sep 19, 2008 20:17:13

The Dude wrote:I asked this before, and didn't get an answer, and I missed the deadline on the last politics thread, but how is Ron Paul a "crazy" libertarian? Looking at all his beliefs, he's the definition of a libertarian. So why is someone like RT, who is a self-proclaimed libertarian, calling him a bad example? Thanks in advance.


Maybe crazy libertarian is redundant.
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Postby The Dude » Fri Sep 19, 2008 20:20:00

That's part of my point. I mean, they really had a guy that was a perfect definition of "libertarian". And then, I see libertarians call him crazy, so I didn't get it.
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Postby TenuredVulture » Fri Sep 19, 2008 20:23:15

I think it's his opposition to free trade, which is not consistent with libertarianism, and verges on black helicopter paranoia.
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