yea thanks for asking

I didn't really mean that. C'mere you...

Woody wrote:TAnd the sum of all of this is probably why most people in the country couldn't give a $#@! less about politics. Because we never get anywhere. It's all just a grownup version of first graders arguing about whose dad could beat up the other.

Ding. As an undergrad I read a great book by E.J. Dionne called "Why Americans Hate Politics." This was the gist of it, as I remember--it's been a helluva long time--and Dionne wrote this in the late '80s or early '90s, before the Clintons and Bushes really made political bullshit into a high art.

Not to go too far into Conspiracy Land, but the really interesting argument is whether on some level it's intentional that the discourse is carried on at such a vile and banal level that even smart people who basically care--people like you, Woods--tune out.

There was an article in the Times today about Jon Stewart as "the most trusted man in America." It's essentially a journalistic BJ, but it gets at an important point: both in terms of topic choices and presentation, the Daily Show is in a weird way much more serious than, say, "The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer." Even guys like O'Reilly and Olbermann are more palatable to me at this point--one more than the other--because at least they seem to take it all kind of seriously.

They got chili dogs in France?

“The absurdity of what you imagine to be the dark heart of conspiracy theorists’ wet dreams far too frequently turns out to be true,” he observed. “You go: I know what I’ll do, I’ll create a character who, when hiring people to rebuild the nation we invaded, says the only question I’ll ask is, ‘What do you think of ‘Roe v. Wade?’ It’ll be hilarious. Then you read that book about the Green Zone in Iraq” — “Imperial Life in the Emerald City” by Rajiv Chandrasekaran — “and you go, ‘Oh, they did that.’ I mean, how do you take things to the next level?”

The problem is really fundamental. The government is polluted with partisan bullshit on both sides. These guys aren't "public servants", they are professional politicians. The goal is to continue to get re-elected. To do that, you collect earmarks for your district or state. The country is essentially run by the lobbyists. The more money you spend, the better. They can pass all of the laws they want, have as many ethics meetings as they want, but nothing will change. I've only really studied politics for the last 9 years or so, so I've spent the majority of my time focusing on Bush and the Republican Congress, and its disgusting the amount of garbage that has taken place, from misinformation to flat out defrauding the country out of millions of dollars. The Abramhoff + DeLay crap was absolutely unbelievable. And the worst part is, these career politicians are screwing us out of our money, and we're the ones that put them in office.

I hate going all ptk. But seriously. One only needs to look at the Tax Code to understand the way government works. Make it complicated enough so the average person just throws up his hands and says "fuck it, I can't figure it out, yeah well", pay lots of lawyers to muddy the waters and cloud up the language, and then spend hundreds of millions of dollars in lobbying to get laws tailored to suit your needs. The goal is to make people hate politics, then they won't be bothered to really read the fine print. When people don't read the fine print, you can practically get away with murder.

Its time to tear the place down and start from scratch.

"A little revolution every now and then is a good thing" - Sean Connery

And I really, really, can't believe that John McCain actually has an ad on TV in which he is referred to as, "The Original Maverick". It must have taken the voiceover talent 40 takes before he got it out without giggling. It's just sooooo corny. At least Obama seems to have a decent creative director

And yet, Woodrow, McCain is steadily closing the gap in the polls.

today i saw someone with an obama bumper sticker parked in a handicapped spot.

my vote has been swayed.

in obama's favor.

I forgot that on my walk to work a car drove by with DC plates that said OBANA. No joke.

I think another problem with politics, especially in the US, is its puritan heritage. And I'm not talking about the religious right. I'm talking about the way the perfect really is the enemy of the good in this country, and far too many people are on the side of the perfect. PTK (and this isn't really a personal attack, merely an illustration) is an example of this.

Look, it's politics. It's been with us since the beginning. It's a system based on our worst characteristics as human beings. TO say, "they're not concerned about the public good" strikes me as something like a parent upset because Santa isn't really going to bring presents for their kids.

I'm not sure of the context but I heard a section of an Obama speech where he said he couldn't bring all their jobs back and that he wasn't going to solve all their problems the day he took office. But he was going to work hard every day for them. I could make a few jokes here about this being a flip-flop. but I'll just say that he sounds a lot like... John McCain.

For a while it seemed Obama was promising everyone everything and McCain was saying things like this. I thought being realistic would doom McCain and he'd have to start promising people everything. Yet he told the VFW that if pork were attached to a veteran's aid bill he'd veto it. Now Obama is coming to the more realistic approach. It may be that the Obama people are thinking they have to win over those for whom "hope" and "change" aren't enough.

I'm giving kudos to you, Barack. You're realizing that you have to win our votes.

Oh my god

Woody wrote:And I really, really, can't believe that John McCain actually has an ad on TV in which he is referred to as, "The Original Maverick".

jerseyhoya wrote:And yet, Woodrow, McCain is steadily closing the gap in the polls.

this is another one of those "walking on the beach in wingtips"-type retorts, just so you're clear how it comes across

It's a fucking political ad. It's supposed to move the polls.

jerseyhoya wrote:It's a $#@! political ad. It's supposed to move the polls.

The point is, you're missing the point, which is not your point, but my point, in this case, which is that quite frequently no one really gives a fuck about whatever point you're attempting to make when you reply to a post that really has no earnest point

Wow, so even when I understand what you're saying you make no sense.

Laexile wrote:
For a while it seemed Obama was promising everyone everything

This never happened. No matter how much McCain's ads may tell you it did. Just because he says 'hope' and 'change' a few times doesn't mean he told me all my dreams will come true if he's president.