Politics: Sorta Black guy v Sorta Old Guy

Postby Philly the Kid » Tue Jun 17, 2008 17:10:22

Houshphandzadeh wrote:I'm a bit of a Biden fanboy.


I liked Biden back in the Iran Contra days, but he's been exposed over the last 20 years...

Philly the Kid
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 19434
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 13:25:27

Postby drsmooth » Tue Jun 17, 2008 17:13:34

Philly the Kid wrote:I don't remember seeing "Smooth" on the ropes so much ?!


Image
Yes, but in a double utley you can put your utley on top they other guy's utley, and you're the winner. (Swish)

drsmooth
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 47349
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 19:24:48
Location: Low station

Postby Houshphandzadeh » Wed Jun 18, 2008 00:30:26

Sorry ahead of the time for this drunk post.

Mayor Nutter really needs to make a speech. He needs to call the whole city population together and decry the killings that are going on. He needs to address to idea of "snitching" and explain why citizens should band together. He should do something, anything.

Houshphandzadeh
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 64362
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 19:15:12
Location: nascar victory

Postby Laexile » Wed Jun 18, 2008 02:18:16

dajafi wrote:I'm shocked at how good this NYT piece--by Elisabeth Bumiller, someone many of us viewed as an administration sycophant--is on the question of how close Bush and McCain are in terms of policy views. I think she gets it exactly right: they're pretty much indistinguishable on the economy and judiciary, close but not exactly aligned on foreign policy, and clearly distinct on the environment as well as in leadership style, personality and mindset.

(I'd add integrity. Anyone who saw David Iglesias on the Daily Show last night probably got a reminder of just how Stalinist the current administration can be in terms of using government power for political ends. McCain's maverick/reformer cred might be overstated, but I can't imagine him doing anything like that.)

My contention remains that on the issues McCain simply doesn't care about that much--the economy and the culture war stuff--he cedes ground to the relevant Big Republican. That's the true similarity to Bush, though it's possible Bush wasn't aware that he was outsourcing administration policy to the Dobson and Norquist crowds.

It's fascinating to me how people are surprised that John McCain is a Republican. Like that was a great secret. From reading the article it seems that both McCain and Bush have similar Republican methods of dealing with the economy. McCain's plans are different but not starkly different. The article doesn't point out that while Bush keeps increasing spending McCain plans to cut it.

John McCain has voted for tax cuts 72% of the time. He's voted against them if there aren't the appropriate spending cuts to go along with them. Yet it's presented as a shocking flip-flop that he now favors tax cuts. He has had one of the strongest pro-life records in the Senate. He supports appointing conservative judges.

His stances on a number of issues differ from Republican orthodoxy. People seem to expect all of them to differ. If you look at Obama's stances on immigration and gay marriage they are similar to Bush's. I'd hope that McCain has more stances closer to Bush's than Obama does. Obama talks about McCain being "another four years of Bush", but what it'd really be is "another four years of the Republican approach." Of course saying "another four years of Bush" scares independents more.
Laexile
There's Our Old Friend
There's Our Old Friend
 
Posts: 3307
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 13:50:23
Location: LA

Postby Disco Stu » Wed Jun 18, 2008 02:38:10

jeff2sf wrote:Could someone offer a half decent argument in favor of the Windfall Profits Tax that doesn't make me wonder if I moved back in time to the USSR? "You can do good, just not TOO good". It's Un-American, dammit. And this is from someone who's more or less in favor of the progressive tax system (in other words, I may not think the current tax system is HAMELS, but I get and approve of the general idea that as income goes up, so does tax rate).


Tell me what is Amercian and I'll show you what is un-American.
Check The Good Phight, you might learn something.

Disco Stu
Dropped Anchor
Dropped Anchor
 
Posts: 9600
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 19:37:30
Location: Land of the banned

Postby pacino » Wed Jun 18, 2008 09:43:17

black guy beating old guy!!! courtesy cnn.com:

Obama lost the Democratic primary in Pennsylvania by 9 points — but a Quinnipiac University poll released Wednesday shows him leading McCain by 12 points, 52-40. In Ohio — a state Obama lost to Hillary Clinton by 10 points in March — he’s leading McCain 48-42. And in Florida, where he did not campaign this primary season and lost an unsanctioned Democratic contest, he leads McCain 47-43.

The Ohio and Florida results are reversals from Quinnipiac polls published a month ago, when Clinton was still in the race, and McCain led Obama in hypothetical match-ups.

thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

pacino
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 75831
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 18:37:20
Location: Furkin Good

Postby Werthless » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:43:41

In an interview with Fortune, Obama admits he actually does like Free Trade.

"Sometimes during campaigns the rhetoric gets overheated and amplified," he conceded, after I reminded him that he had called NAFTA "devastating" and "a big mistake," despite nonpartisan studies concluding that the trade zone has had a mild, positive effect on the U.S. economy.

Does that mean his rhetoric was overheated and amplified? "Politicians are always guilty of that, and I don't exempt myself," he answered.


Thankfully, he doesn't want to just blow up NAFTA, as his previous rhetoric suggested. He believes it's important that the US do a better job negotiating better enforcement of intellectual property rights and copyright laws, as well as including labor and environmental standards in agreements (as they are increasingly done).The move to the center continues....

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/18/magazin ... 2008061810

Werthless
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 12968
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 16:07:07

Postby Woody » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:51:49

I think I could live another hundred lives and be happy never hearing the word rhetoric again

Woody
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 52472
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 17:56:45
Location: captain of the varsity slut team

Postby dajafi » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:35:07


dajafi
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 24567
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 20:03:18
Location: Brooklyn

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:37:21

pacino wrote:black guy beating old guy!!! courtesy cnn.com:

Obama lost the Democratic primary in Pennsylvania by 9 points — but a Quinnipiac University poll released Wednesday shows him leading McCain by 12 points, 52-40. In Ohio — a state Obama lost to Hillary Clinton by 10 points in March — he’s leading McCain 48-42. And in Florida, where he did not campaign this primary season and lost an unsanctioned Democratic contest, he leads McCain 47-43.

The Ohio and Florida results are reversals from Quinnipiac polls published a month ago, when Clinton was still in the race, and McCain led Obama in hypothetical match-ups.


Bump from winning the nomination. He'll get another at the convention. McCain needs to be within say 10 at the start of the GOP convention or else it's really bad. McCain will get his own bump after that.

jerseyhoya
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 97408
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 21:56:17

Postby The Red Tornado » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:58:03



My Dad was a sharp guy- he would memorize rubber prices and shipping quotes and rattle them off when needed with customers. Nowadays, it's become a hindrance that he's relied so heavily on his memory because he frequently gets it wrong and gets himself into trouble. Seemed to happen once he turned 62- I think McCain may be suffering from the same problems and may get himself into situations by relying too much on his memory when going into specifics without being briefed properly right before or using note cards.
The Red Tornado
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 12717
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 07:21:16

Postby TenuredVulture » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:59:19

The Red Tornado wrote:


My Dad was a sharp guy- he would memorize rubber prices and shipping quotes and rattle them off when needed with customers. Nowadays, it's become a hindrance that he's relied so heavily on his memory because he frequently gets it wrong and gets himself into trouble. Seemed to happen once he turned 62- I think McCain may be suffering from the same problems and may get himself into situations by relying too much on his memory when going into specifics without being briefed properly right before or using note cards.


62? It happened to me at 38.
Be Bold!

TenuredVulture
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
 
Posts: 53243
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 00:16:10
Location: Magnolia, AR

Postby Woody » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:08:10

Scary

* He said that the number of troops in Iraq was "down to pre-surge levels". In fact, we have 25,000 more troops in Iraq than we did when the surge began.

* He gets Shi'a and Sunni Islam confused, and doesn't seem to know that Iran, which is Shi'a, is very unlikely to train al Qaeda in Iraq, which is Sunni, within its borders. Possibly that's because he thinks that al Qaeda is Shi'a.

* He doesn't seem to know what his own Social Security policy is. From the WSJ:

"On Social Security, the Arizona senator says he still backs a system of private retirement accounts that President Bush pushed unsuccessfully, and disowned details of a Social Security proposal on his campaign Web site."

* He also seems to disagree with his campaign and his website on whether he plans to repeal the Alternative Minimum Tax.

* My personal favorite:

""The economy is not good. The stock market continues down. And the indicators are not good. I'm not too astonished. ... We let spending get totally out of control, and it continues today, and I'm sorry to tell you this," McCain said at a town-hall style meeting at the Carolina Hospital East Campus in Florence. (...)

"People talk about a stimulus package. Fine, if that's what we want to come up with. But stop the spending first," he said."

Um: excessive government spending does not slow the economy down. And you stimulate the economy by (basically) putting more money into it. Saying that we need to "stop the spending" before passing a stimulus package is like saying: "Sure, we need to deal with the flooding in your basement. But let's finish filling it up with water first."

Woody
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 52472
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 17:56:45
Location: captain of the varsity slut team

Postby dajafi » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:11:43

This ad is getting a lot of hype on the left. I don't think it's all that great, but then again when I saw the "Daisy" ad in a polisci class 15 or so years ago, I didn't really get the big deal there either...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq30lapbC9c&e[/youtube]

dajafi
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 24567
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 20:03:18
Location: Brooklyn

Postby Phan In Phlorida » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:20:46

The Red Tornado wrote:My Dad was a sharp guy- he would memorize rubber prices and shipping quotes and rattle them off when needed with customers.

A talent shared with the COO of Trojan :!:
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Phan In Phlorida
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 12571
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 03:51:57
Location: 22 Acacia Avenue

Postby BuddyGroom » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:24:03

The Democrats are trying to mimic Republican success in the past with emotional, gut-response appeals, like the Willie Horton ad, some of the "dark-skinned people are coming to take your jobs" type ads that Jesse Helms and others ran.

Will this ad work? I like it, but that doesn't mean anything because I'm already part of the choir so to speak.

I really don't think an ad like this can hurt much - the woman seems likeable and down to earth, and I think her concern for her son will register across the board.

Air America's Lionel thinks it's a terrible ad that doesn't tack to the center at all, but I think he's trying to be as alarmist as possible these days to ward off any sense of over-confidence or complacency by the Democrats.

Salon.com did run a piece by Gary Kamiya yesterday suggesting that Democrats should offer the Republicans the chance to forfeit this election, to avoid further embarrassment, but that was largely tongue in cheek.

I think Democrats have most of the issues in their favor this time around and that ad will not be a hindrance, but also not a big help.
BuddyGroom
There's Our Old Friend
There's Our Old Friend
 
Posts: 3075
Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 14:16:17

Postby Philly the Kid » Wed Jun 18, 2008 13:06:50

I know I'm going to get 'killed' here for this -- but Ralph Nader was on Democracy Now this morning

15 minute interview with Ralph this morning on issues Obama and Mcain

He again talks about the two-party system and how its rigged so that no 3rd party can ever get legs. Said Russert was the ONLY mainstream media guy to let Ralph talk. It is troubling to me. Obama is now parroting irrational paranoias about Iran, and borrowing expertise for the Rubin school of economics. (Kerry was similar) Meaning that Obama has let the Bush and Corporate Media define the issues and the scope and tone of his stated policies. His foreign policy looks only slightly milder than Bush, and he's been back pedaling on this diplomacy first. The word "Change" has had every drop squeezed out of it yet, and yet I have no idea what 'real change' he will drive through? Feels like slight variations on a theme, feels like Kerry, Gore and all the rest.

Even old and kermudgeny, Nader still cuts through the bs, and brings up real issues. It will be hard for me to not buy in to the lesser of evils trap this round because I really don't want Republicans as the titular powers in White House -- but its very troubling because i'd much RATHER vote for Nader honestly.

more Nader info on campaign

Nader track record

Before you thrash me -- take the 15minutes and listen to what Ralph actually said, just this morning and tell me if you think he's a lunatic? Too radical and see what you think about HIS analysis of Obama and MCcain. It's not a super long interview.

Flame retardent on ~~~~~~

Philly the Kid
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 19434
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 13:25:27

Postby dajafi » Wed Jun 18, 2008 13:11:16

PtK, why do you think it is that one never hears from Nader in years that don't end in multiples of 4?

The guy is an ass, plain and simple. He has no credibility. I feel like a total sucker for having voted for him eight years ago, and I find it grimly satisfying that he's destroyed his good name through the sort of egomania that would make a Clinton blush.

dajafi
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 24567
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 20:03:18
Location: Brooklyn

Postby TenuredVulture » Wed Jun 18, 2008 13:39:07

Re: Third Parties. It's not a conspiracy, it's a consequences of a first past the post electoral system.

A third party could emerge in one of two ways--it can emerge if the current system falls apart and is unable to correct itself, or in areas where there is total dominance by a single party by working hard through grass roots efforts and winning first at the local and state level.


Of course, Nader isn't interested in either model. Nader has almost singlehandedly done more harm to progressive movements than anyone else. From PIRGs and associated scams to the 2000 election, he's more loathsome than Bill O'Reilly.
Be Bold!

TenuredVulture
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
 
Posts: 53243
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 00:16:10
Location: Magnolia, AR

Postby Philly the Kid » Wed Jun 18, 2008 13:40:18

dajafi wrote:PtK, why do you think it is that one never hears from Nader in years that don't end in multiples of 4?

The guy is an ass, plain and simple. He has no credibility. I feel like a total sucker for having voted for him eight years ago, and I find it grimly satisfying that he's destroyed his good name through the sort of egomania that would make a Clinton blush.


Good points. But I'm talking not about the viability of his campaign, he has no viability. I'm talking about the substance of his message -- and his accurate cliam that NO 3rd party candidate has a shot the way the power is meted out.

I was hoping, you of all people in this thread, would at least listen to the 15minutes and respond to his critique of Obama and McCain if nothing else?!

Philly the Kid
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 19434
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 13:25:27

PreviousNext