Dude, someone died, and the only person who could have done something about it callously waited 8 hours or so before informing anyone. This is SOOO much worse (at least it appears this way, I'm waiting for one of dajafi,pacino or TV to jump in) than being involved in the Keating 5. THIS is a deal breaker. I'm not sure if a Savings and Loans scandal compares to allowing someone to drown without informing the authorities about it for 8 hours.

Also, if other senators have skeletons in their closets that compare to this, they should leave. But the thing is, this isn't in the closet, we all know this and yet somehow we choose to ignore it. Voting on health care bills doesn't make up for it. I'm sorry, it's crappy, there are plenty of other people that have his same political opinion that haven't been involved in involuntary manslaughter, let's vote them into the Senate.

jeff2sf wrote:Dude, someone died, and the only person who could have done something about it callously waited 8 hours or so before informing anyone. This is SOOO much worse (at least it appears this way, I'm waiting for one of dajafi,pacino or TV to jump in) than being involved in the Keating 5. THIS is a deal breaker. I'm not sure if a Savings and Loans scandal compares to allowing someone to drown without informing the authorities about it for 8 hours.

Also, if other senators have skeletons in their closets that compare to this, they should leave. But the thing is, this isn't in the closet, we all know this and yet somehow we choose to ignore it. Voting on health care bills doesn't make up for it. I'm sorry, it's crappy, there are plenty of other people that have his same political opinion that haven't been involved in involuntary manslaughter, let's vote them into the Senate.

Well, I don't live in Mass. never have, but clearly the people of that State weren't as concerned as you -- since they've kept him in office all these years. And this brings up an interesting issue about whether one bad decision in your life, cancels out the rest of what your life can achieve? Clearly this man as a Senator has done a lot of good. Perhaps in a senese, he was more motivated to good to repent for anything he did wrong earlier?

It's moot, he's 76, with a malignant brain tumor. I think his days are numbered.

jerseyhoya wrote:

dajafi wrote:This election will provide a nice test of the economic literacy (or lack thereof) of the American public. Based on how the Clinton/McCain Gas Tax Pander fell short, I'm fairly optimistic.

I guess I slept through the class in macro theory when we discussed the evils of free trade, and that my micro principles prof lied to me about comparative advantage.

I tried to nudge you awake. This digression has naught to do with comparative advantage; how on earth did you get there?

Philly the Kid wrote:

Well, I don't live in Mass. never have, but clearly the people of that State weren't as concerned as you -- since they've kept him in office all these years. And this brings up an interesting issue about whether one bad decision in your life, cancels out the rest of what your life can achieve? Clearly this man as a Senator has done a lot of good. Perhaps in a senese, he was more motivated to good to repent for anything he did wrong earlier?

It's moot, he's 76, with a malignant brain tumor. I think his days are numbered.

Fantastic, let's put murderers in the senate (so long as they're repentant), the more the better, because so long as they are repentant, they'll be incented to do a better job than the average Joe Non-Murderer. Seriously, that's the logical conclusion one must take it to. But instead, I'm proposing the radical idea of not electing anybody involved in involuntary manslaughter from having 1 of our 100 most important figures. Because again, there are plenty of people not involved with involuntary manslaughter who hold these same positions on the policy issues you laud him for.

For the love of god, will pacino, dajafi, or TV jump in here.

jeff, I've really got nothing to add here.

I haven't thought about Chappaquiddick in a long time. After your post, I went to Wikipedia (I know, I know) to refresh myself on the details. What happened there is appalling and inexcusable.

How much it counts that he's been the greatest champion of progressive causes in the country over the last 40 years is I guess something every voter has to figure out for him/herself. I'm kind of glad I've never had to make a decision about it.

Ok, well at least we're getting somewhere. This comes in to the vote the man not the cause. And here at least, we're not guessing on the type of person he is or isn't, we have a documented appalling action. I think my point is that Dems and Reps really need to intercede and not allow him to even have the opportunity to become a progressive champion or what not. Sure it worked out for you that he's done some nice things in the Senate for the last 39 years, but if he didn't, someone else probably would have (or at the very least could have). And that's not to mention that at the time, no one could foresee that he would do those things.

It's funny, as a political neophyte, I didn't really understand what Chappaquiddick was, I actually thought it was some sex scandal. I looked it up just while wiki'ing Teddy since so many elected officials were raving about him this week. It never even crossed my mind that a senator who's been ELECTED AT LEAST 5 MORE TIMES SINCE THIS INCIDENT was complicit in a death. I mean the whole thing makes me nauseous.

jeff2sf wrote:Ok, well at least we're getting somewhere. This comes in to the vote the man not the cause. And here at least, we're not guessing on the type of person he is or isn't, we have a documented appalling action. I think my point is that Dems and Reps really need to intercede and not allow him to even have the opportunity to become a progressive champion or what not. Sure it worked out for you that he's done some nice things in the Senate for the last 39 years, but if he didn't, someone else probably would have (or at the very least could have). And that's not to mention that at the time, no one could foresee that he would do those things.

It's funny, as a political neophyte, I didn't really understand what Chappaquiddick was, I actually thought it was some sex scandal. I looked it up just while wiki'ing Teddy since so many elected officials were raving about him this week. It never even crossed my mind that a senator who's been ELECTED AT LEAST 5 MORE TIMES SINCE THIS INCIDENT was complicit in a death. I mean the whole thing makes me nauseous.

The skeleton is hardly in the closet. I really don't know any talking points or spin that excuses or even defends Kennedy here. I'm not saying there aren't any, I'm just not aware of it.

Not that it's any consolation, but Chappaquidick probably kept Teddy out of the White House and gave us Jimmy Carter.

jeff2sf wrote:Ok, well at least we're getting somewhere. This comes in to the vote the man not the cause. And here at least, we're not guessing on the type of person he is or isn't, we have a documented appalling action. I think my point is that Dems and Reps really need to intercede and not allow him to even have the opportunity to become a progressive champion or what not. Sure it worked out for you that he's done some nice things in the Senate for the last 39 years, but if he didn't, someone else probably would have (or at the very least could have). And that's not to mention that at the time, no one could foresee that he would do those things.

It's funny, as a political neophyte, I didn't really understand what Chappaquiddick was, I actually thought it was some sex scandal. I looked it up just while wiki'ing Teddy since so many elected officials were raving about him this week. It never even crossed my mind that a senator who's been ELECTED AT LEAST 5 MORE TIMES SINCE THIS INCIDENT was complicit in a death. I mean the whole thing makes me nauseous.

You want nauseous? Imagine all the things our elected officials have done that we don't even know about yet.

jeff2sf wrote:Dude, someone died, and the only person who could have done something about it callously waited 8 hours or so before informing anyone. This is SOOO much worse (at least it appears this way, I'm waiting for one of dajafi,pacino or TV to jump in) than being involved in the Keating 5. THIS is a deal breaker. I'm not sure if a Savings and Loans scandal compares to allowing someone to drown without informing the authorities about it for 8 hours.

Also, if other senators have skeletons in their closets that compare to this, they should leave. But the thing is, this isn't in the closet, we all know this and yet somehow we choose to ignore it. Voting on health care bills doesn't make up for it. I'm sorry, it's crappy, there are plenty of other people that have his same political opinion that haven't been involved in involuntary manslaughter, let's vote them into the Senate.

My opinion is that it's over with and he's going to die so it's about as fruitless as railing against Storm Thurmond towards his end. Too little, too late.

FWIW, Kennedy, while a bastard, has much more political will and acumen than many with similar opinions. He's simply a terrific legislator, whether you believe what he believes or not. That, plus his last name, is probably why he was elected so much

jeff2sf wrote:Hi, so I've been doing a little bit of reading on Ted Kennedy, and of course Chappaquiddick. Can I please get the Democrat spin on this, because I gotta tell you, this looks REALLY bad. I mean really really bad. Unless it's in war, I really don't want my senators actively involved in people dying. I'm all for forgiveness and all that, but cripes, there's only 100 senators out of 300 million people. Surely we can find 100 people not involved in, (what seems like) involuntary manslaughter. But hey, thank God he voted the way he did on healthcare/gun control/fillinDemocratissue

I went to school with the son of Mary Jo Kopechne's cousin. srsly.

Dude on the TV saying that Jindal, Crist and Romney are on McCain's VP short list.

Phan In Phlorida wrote:Dude on the TV saying that Jindal, Crist and Romney are on McCain's VP short list.

They're going to his place in Arizona this weekend. Apparently Pawlenty was invited as well, but couldn't go cause he's got a wedding. Better be an important wedding.

jerseyhoya wrote:

Phan In Phlorida wrote:Dude on the TV saying that Jindal, Crist and Romney are on McCain's VP short list.

They're going to his place in Arizona this weekend. Apparently Pawlenty was invited as well, but couldn't go cause he's got a wedding. Better be an important wedding.

I so hope he has them fight, or do a pie-eating contest, or something.

Also, that he picks The Mittster.

dajafi wrote:I so hope he has them fight, or do a pie-eating contest, or something.

Also, that he picks The Mittster.

talk about yer "making a statement"-type choice

they could re-draw the GOP mascot without ears while they're at it

With the news that Israel may be entering into peace talks with Syria, is it possible that Bush's clumsy appeasement remarks were directed at members of the Israeli government rather than Obama?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0mccyZIGlk[/youtube]

Frank Lautenberg is old, screams Rob Andrews

I just saw that this morning. It's hilarious

jerseyhoya wrote:Frank Lautenberg is old, screams Rob Andrews

Andrews is a good man, even if he is off on a some key issues like trade. For a Democrat, you could do lots worse.

TomatoPie wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:Frank Lautenberg is old, screams Rob Andrews

Andrews is a good man, even if he is off on a some key issues like trade. For a Democrat, you could do lots worse.

apparently his backers are uninterested or unconcerned about the good in him, or his stance on substantive issues; "hey, his salable advantage is that he's drawn fewer breaths than Lautenberg!!"

it's positively perverse to scold someone for employing a tactic - implicitly decrying the tactic itself - in the same breath you're applying said tactic to that person. Who's gonna vote for that act?

I like Jim Webb a lot. I think Obama would be smart to bick him as a running mate and I think Webb would accept.