dajafi wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:Winning the states Kerry won plus Ohio?

I don't think she holds onto Kerry's states. If elections were held today, she wouldn't (see maps in this post), and I don't get how she hopes to change enough minds to turn those polls around.

Unless McCain calls for pre-emptive nuclear strikes on Canada, I think he's set.

I think perception is everything and while Clinton illicits negative response from many (often for ridiculous reasons) 99% of the Obama camp will vote for her. I have no idea what is going to happen, but if the turnout so far for these primaries is any sort of indicator, I don't think it matters if it is Obama or Clinton.

Disco Stu wrote: 99% of the Obama camp will vote for her.

I disagree, I think a substantial chunk doesnt even vote

The Red Tornado wrote:

Disco Stu wrote: 99% of the Obama camp will vote for her.

I disagree, I think a substantial chunk doesnt even vote

Are you implying that black people either vote for a black dude or not at all?

Macho Row wrote:

Laexile wrote:In the polls I've seen Obama beats McCain in the popular vote, but here's something interesting. This poll has McCain slightly ahead in the electoral college. Polls between Clinton and McCain are fairly tight, but this poll has McCain way ahead in the electoral college.

Not sure how accurate these really are. For one, they have McCain beating Obama in Massachusetts, a state that hasn't gone Republican in a presidential election since '84. It also has McCain ahead in Virginia by about 10 percentage points in races against both Clinton and Obama. It may happen, but I'd guess that Virginia is a close race this time around with the inroads Democrats are making in the state with Tim Kaine, Mark Warner, and Jim Webb.

The polls are irrelevant. The election isn't for nine months. So many things will happen between now and then to boost or drop either candidate. The interesting part is that McCain does better in the electoral college than he does in the polls against both candidates. The Massachusetts poll, if at all accurate, is alarming. Republicans haven't done well in Massachusetts. It was the only state McGovern won. It's been said that Boston is one of the more racist towns in America and maybe that's part of it.

dajafi, I'm sure Clinton will say that the polls between her and McCain are fairly close and that when it's just the two of them she'll close the distance. Right now she doesn't look good compared to Obama, but these things change. Three months ago Clinton had a big lead. Seven months from now she could again. Any Dem could win. The Clintons haven't lost an election in 28 years. They win elections.

Disco Stu wrote:

The Red Tornado wrote:

Disco Stu wrote: 99% of the Obama camp will vote for her.

I disagree, I think a substantial chunk doesnt even vote

Are you implying that black people either vote for a black dude or not at all?

not at all

I think Obama has inspired a certain segment (including alot of young people) and I'm willing to bet that some of them won't vote if he isnt on the ballot.

The Red Tornado wrote:

Disco Stu wrote:

The Red Tornado wrote:

Disco Stu wrote: 99% of the Obama camp will vote for her.

I disagree, I think a substantial chunk doesnt even vote

Are you implying that black people either vote for a black dude or not at all?

not at all

I think Obama has inspired a certain segment (including alot of young people) and I'm willing to bet that some of them won't vote if he isnt on the ballot.

Especially if the Clinton campaign continues to use tactics like this to take Obama down.

Grasping at straws?

All you kids who missed out on the fun and hijinx of the first Balkan war, you may get your chance!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7251802.stm

The Red Tornado wrote:

Disco Stu wrote:

The Red Tornado wrote:

Disco Stu wrote: 99% of the Obama camp will vote for her.

I disagree, I think a substantial chunk doesnt even vote

Are you implying that black people either vote for a black dude or not at all?

not at all

I think Obama has inspired a certain segment (including alot of young people) and I'm willing to bet that some of them won't vote if he isnt on the ballot.

If Obama wins the nomination, I'm voting for him. But if Hillary wins, there's no way I'm voting for her.

philliesphhan wrote:

The Red Tornado wrote:

Disco Stu wrote:

The Red Tornado wrote:

Disco Stu wrote: 99% of the Obama camp will vote for her.

I disagree, I think a substantial chunk doesnt even vote

Are you implying that black people either vote for a black dude or not at all?

not at all

I think Obama has inspired a certain segment (including alot of young people) and I'm willing to bet that some of them won't vote if he isnt on the ballot.

If Obama wins the nomination, I'm voting for him. But if Hillary wins, there's no way I'm voting for her.

Then you vote on the person and not the policy. That is supposed to further our country how?

Policies matter, but not as much as the people. And no, this isn't really a comment on the character of the person, though in general that helps. This is are people able to contend with questions or disasters that I've never even imagined as they come up in real time and act in a deft and honorable way. It's not about I'm for policy A to handle with situation B. It's about, here's a problem, here's my framework for solving it.

It's not all that of course for me... in a lot of ways, I bet Mitt Romney would have been aces as a president - he was a chief executive in a lot of different situations, but he turned me off with the floppiness.

Finally, with someone like Hillary, who cares if she's for national health care mandates or something, it'll never be implemented, as will most things presidents stand for, especially if there is a split legislature or a legislature of the opposite side.

Disco Stu wrote:

philliesphhan wrote:

The Red Tornado wrote:

Disco Stu wrote:

The Red Tornado wrote:

Disco Stu wrote: 99% of the Obama camp will vote for her.

I disagree, I think a substantial chunk doesnt even vote

Are you implying that black people either vote for a black dude or not at all?

not at all

I think Obama has inspired a certain segment (including alot of young people) and I'm willing to bet that some of them won't vote if he isnt on the ballot.

If Obama wins the nomination, I'm voting for him. But if Hillary wins, there's no way I'm voting for her.

Then you vote on the person and not the policy. That is supposed to further our country how?

That's funny. I don't remember reading Obama and Clinton had identical policies.

philliesphhan wrote:

Disco Stu wrote:

philliesphhan wrote:

The Red Tornado wrote:

Disco Stu wrote:

The Red Tornado wrote:

Disco Stu wrote: 99% of the Obama camp will vote for her.

I disagree, I think a substantial chunk doesnt even vote

Are you implying that black people either vote for a black dude or not at all?

not at all

I think Obama has inspired a certain segment (including alot of young people) and I'm willing to bet that some of them won't vote if he isnt on the ballot.

If Obama wins the nomination, I'm voting for him. But if Hillary wins, there's no way I'm voting for her.

Then you vote on the person and not the policy. That is supposed to further our country how?

That's funny. I don't remember reading Obama and Clinton had identical policies.

So, you mean you are voting on the policies then. Please, explain to me where they differ in policy so much that you'd rather not vote or vote for McCain.

jeff2sf wrote:Policies matter, but not as much as the people. And no, this isn't really a comment on the character of the person, though in general that helps.

Helps what? Your perception or the goverment and what's best for the people?

This is are people able to contend with questions or disasters that I've never even imagined as they come up in real time and act in a deft and honorable way.

So, you are saying that people's disdain for Clinton is because she wouldn't be able to handle herself in a "sticky" situation? I won't even make a reference to the POSSIBLE sexism there though. So, you are voting on a Commander and Contends with Bad Stuff Well.

It's not about I'm for policy A to handle with situation B. It's about, here's a problem, here's my framework for solving it.

Isn't policy a framework for solving problems? Or are the only problems that count are the ones that haven't occured yet?

It's not all that of course for me... in a lot of ways, I bet Mitt Romney would have been aces as a president - he was a chief executive in a lot of different situations, but he turned me off with the floppiness.

Aces? I certainly believe that Mitt would have conducted himself in a very official manner and would have done everything possible to get every photo-op and appear as if he was leading. That IS what a CEO does. But it works different being the president. It's not just about looking good, it's about getting things done. I am not saying that Clinton is ideal there. I mean, Bill certainly playedthe part a lot more than he actually worked the part.

Finally, with someone like Hillary, who cares if she's for national health care mandates or something, it'll never be implemented, as will most things presidents stand for, especially if there is a split legislature or a legislature of the opposite side.

Are you saying you are more for people who look like they are getting things done rather than actually trying to get things done? Who cares about national health care mandates? Are you kidding me? I am sure there are at least 40 million Americans who care. And even if she couldn't get it done (though, with a democratic congress, who knows) isn't taking the first step a big deal? I find it sad that anyone would not vote for something that they believe in because it isn't likely to happen (unless you are against poor people having health care).

The problem is too many people don't vote on policy. If more people did, then more things would get done. I am probably on Obama's side more, but I have said this before. We are not voting on the most popular kid. We are voting on the person who can help do the most for this country and it's citizens. Sometimes you need a shark that nobody likes to do that.

Disco Stu wrote:
So, you mean you are voting on the policies then. Please, explain to me where they differ in policy so much that you'd rather not vote or vote for McCain.

Maybe if you explain to me how voting for Obama and voting for Clinton is like voting for the same thing.

philliesphhan wrote:

Disco Stu wrote:
So, you mean you are voting on the policies then. Please, explain to me where they differ in policy so much that you'd rather not vote or vote for McCain.

Maybe if you explain to me how voting for Obama and voting for Clinton is like voting for the same thing.

I know you are, but what am I?

Obam and Clinton would likely push for similar programs and legislation. They will just have a different way of going about things and a different way of conveying a message.

philliesphhan wrote:

Disco Stu wrote:
So, you mean you are voting on the policies then. Please, explain to me where they differ in policy so much that you'd rather not vote or vote for McCain.

Maybe if you explain to me how voting for Obama and voting for Clinton is like voting for the same thing.

Are you kidding me? I have to draw all the similarities for you because you refuse to tell me what differences you see that will make you not vote for Clinton? I believe you are the one drawing the comparison, yet I have to do the legwork to try to prove it for you?

You're the one who makes random accusations like saying someone is "sexist" if they don't think Hillary would make a good leader.
And you said 99% of the Obama camp will vote for Hillary. That sounds more like people vote along party lines rather than policy.

OMG! Disco Stu arguing semantics!