This baseball axiom seems to have been making the rounds this week: Good pitching stops good hitting. Unfortunately for the Phillies, they are built in reverse of most teams as admitted here:(From the DN 5/20/08:)

Assistant general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. alluded to that before the game. Sitting in the dugout, he answered a question about the rotation by talking about the lineup. His point was that while the prototypical championship team is built around strong starters, the Phillies are constructed differently. They are built to outscore the opposition.

So, the Phillies have assembled their most talented team in 15 years? 30 years? Maybe ever? And unfortunately the organization has a philosophy that may lead to this collection of players never winning due to salaries currently tied up in offensive players?

Anyway, this fundamental flaw seems to have been exposed in last year's playoffs and in this years interleague play. If they do make the playoffs this season and play a team like Arizona in the first round would anyone give them a chance to win going against Webb, Haren, and Johnson? If they did make it to the Series do they have ANY chance against Beckett, Lester, and Dice-K?

Maybe instead of trading more young pitching prospects for a rental maybe they should consider trading Ryan "Kingman" Howard while they can (for value) at the deadline for a top pitcher they can can control for a few more years. In the process they can change their salary structure more towards pitching, or at least away from offense.

I may be wrong here with this whole premise but who was the last team to win a championship built around trying to outscore an opponent?

Every one. The key in baseball is to outscore the opponent, yes?

jerseyhoya wrote:Every one. The key in baseball is to outscore the opponent, yes?

And your opponent will outscore you most games if your pitcher's ERA is 5 1/2

We have the third best team ERA in the National League, ffs.

If Myers starts pitching at all, we'll have a good 1-2. We have a really good bullpen. We just need to hit.

Charlie's 1997 Indians were built the same way and would've won if it wasn't for Mesa...

jerseyhoya wrote:We have the third best team ERA in the National League, ffs.

If Myers starts pitching at all, we'll have a good 1-2. We have a really good bullpen. We just need to hit.

Our team ERA is mostly bullpen...the starter's ERA is mediocre. If Myers was a legitimate number two starter the Phillies would possibly be the best team in the NL right now and at I'd at least feel more confident about our October chances.

I'm as harsh as it gets on our pitching -- but we've lost a bunch of games recently and this season -- that were due to lack of offense. Can't win if you score ZERO runs. Utley cooled way down, Howard is turning in to Kingman, JRol and Burrell have been far from onfire and then we keep giving ABs to Jenkins, Ruiz, Pete Happy has been servicable --

I am concerned facing good pitching in a playoff situation -- and that's why I"d like to see another stud next to Hamels.

Contracts are limiting. No one is taking Eaton, Jenkins, and Myers won't get close to what he would have a year or two ago. But I'd look at moving a lot of these 'vets' and work with some youngins or a rental vet who is healthy and legit.

Big picture? This team has a substandard front-office, it will never get better while the Bucks own the team.

Seems like they spend plenty on pitching between Moyer, Eaton, Gordon, Myers, and Lidge.

Houshphandzadeh wrote:Seems like they spend plenty on pitching between Moyer, Eaton, Gordon, Myers, and Lidge.

It's not the spending. It's the choices of WHO to spend, how much and for how long. Eaton was a huge mistake at that price. Gordon got too many years. And now Myers falling apart is another over-paid player not producing as hoped or expected. What about Garcia?

This team, in first place by the way, is not fatally flawed. Would an upgrade over Eaton be good? Sure. But so would hitting a few more balls out of the park.

Warszawa wrote:If they do make the playoffs this season and play a team like Arizona in the first round would anyone give them a chance to win going against Webb, Haren, and Johnson?

Our old man is having a better year than their old man

We have the 2nd best run differential in MLB, only after the Cubs. I'd say we are just unlucky.

Not for nothing, because I'm as tired as anybody at starting every Adam Eaton start down 2-0, but he has a 4.06 ERA over his last seven games and a 3.20 ERA if you overlook the Anaheim start). Overall, nearly 70% of his starts are "quality" starts.

Eaton has only gotten 3.7 runs of support per start this season and the Phils have scored exactly 12 runs in his last five starts (2.4 per game) and three runs in his last three starts.

He starts what seems to be every game in a 2-0 hole and he allows way too many baserunners but he, for the most part, has been solid and gives the team a chance to win almost every time out. Bottom line is that the Phils have bigger problems than Adam Eaton, IMHO. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever that lineup should EVER be shutout.

The last full cycle through the rotation they've gotten one blown quality start (Myers, 4 ER in 7 2/3 IP) and four quality starts. They're 1-4 in those games.

IT'S NOT A "FATAL FLAW." IT'S A FUCKING HITTING SLUMP.

fatally flawed, NO

flawed, YES

You know, I knew something was wrong, but couldn't exactly place it. Not it hit me.

Chase Utley now has Shane Victorino's swing. How'd that happen :?:

Bucky wrote:You know, I knew something was wrong, but couldn't exactly place it. Not it hit me.

Chase Utley now has Shane Victorino's swing. How'd that happen :?:

Funny you bring Shane V up because I was just thinking the other night how much his game reminds me of Willie Mays Hayes. He has a 1.16 GB / FB ratio which is WAY too low for somebody with his speed. With that swing, I don't know how he ever gets a hit.

dajafi wrote:The last full cycle through the rotation they've gotten one blown quality start (Myers, 4 ER in 7 2/3 IP) and four quality starts. They're 1-4 in those games.

IT'S NOT A "FATAL FLAW." IT'S A $#@! HITTING SLUMP.

A slump or just the inability to hit superior pitching? If they return to form and hit like crazy against Texas and continue to hit against the lesser more familiar pitching opponents they have coming up then I don't know if you can just say its a slump. This exhibition of bad hitting just witnessed will continue to return every time we face teams like the Red Sox, Angels, As, etc.

If they continue to not hit for another week or so then I'll go along with the slump notion although it may not be able to be proven as coincidence could also play a role.

The Phillies are 2-9 in their last 11. In those games they've been outscored 48-31. For the season the Phillies are averaging 5.1 runs scored and 4.1 runs allowed. During this stretch they are averaging 2.8 runs scored and 4.4 runs allowed. They are 2-3 when allowing 4 runs or less. The pitching hasn't been the problem.

I'm really getting sick and tired of the negativity around here. I think it's driven Disco Stu away.

The team is in fucking first place. First place. First place. And all you fuckers keep doing is saying, they're going to get swept, they might win a game, Myers this, Eaton that, wah, wah, wah.

Do me a favor and stop watching. Go put on your Howard Eskin and shout Eagles from your basement, root for the Nationals, I don't care. But stop moaning about how this first place team sucks.

It's baseball, for crying out loud. Every team hits a rough patch. And despite that, they're still in first. You'd think you were rooting for the Nationals.

This team has two MVPs, and two guys who will get lots of MVP votes this year. And you can't appreciate that.