Bill Conlin and Hitler

Postby CrashburnAlley » Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:51:40

swishnicholson wrote:I'm not quite sure where you get this. I assumed your motives were as follows: You read an article by Conlin in which he made a case for Jimmy Rollins as the MVP and felt it necessary to throw in a number of gratuitous and not very clever insults at statistically-minded baseball fans and researchers. You then sent him an email which said, essentially, Bill Conlin, you are an idiot.


I'm as big a Jimmy Rollins fan as anyone, and even the Sabermetrics make a decent case for Rollins, but not for Rollins v. Wright.

I explicitly refrained from using Sabermetrics in my E-mail with Conlin, and simply asked him how Rollins was superior to Wright statistically. I didn't ask him to use WARP or EQA or WPA.

As for my motives, this is how it started:

1. I clicked on Fire Joe Morgan's article on the subject.
2. I read FJM's take, then I clicked the link to Conlin's article provided.
3. I read Conlin's article.
4. I saw Conlin's E-mail address at the bottom of his article, and opened up my Gmail account and typed out that E-mail you see posted on my blog.

I had no intention of rabble-rousing. I was simply curious if there was something I was missing in the MVP debate. If I didn't think there was, I wouldn't have asked him.

swishnicholson wrote:I realize that's not what you SAID, your contact was far more polite in form than that, but what spurred the initial email was that you thought Conlin was completely off-base, was it not?


Not completely... I was unable to see how Rollins was a more viable candidate than Wright and his article did more to dissuade me of Rollins' candidacy. As a Phillies fan, I was simply looking for some reasons to hop on Rollins' bandwagon. To that point, I hadn't seen any and still haven't.

swishnicholson wrote:My arguments were strictly that following Conlin's lame but predictable reply, the exchanges became considerably less polite, and that the farther this became removed from the initial, "reporter writes an article and reader responds", the less consequences it should have for Conlin professionally. At some point these can be regarded as personal emails, and the content contained seen as responses to private conversations, rather than anything publicly published. But I used that fact to judge Conlin's conduct, not yours.


I really don't see how there is a gradual transition from professional to personal E-mail. His E-mail was on a professional website right next to his professional work. Any E-mails he sends to readers who have used that E-mail address shown on that website are professional, and he is representing his employer and his employer's product every time he sends out an E-mail.

If I had acquired that E-mail address -- which I presume he uses for both business and personal matters -- differently, it'd be a different story.

swishnicholson wrote:I never had any problem with posting a columnist's email response. I did feel that once you had clearly made your point you should have let it go at that. I realize that would have been acting considerably more professionally than Conlin did, but someone has to set the standard.


I definitely could have done some things differently. As they say, though, hindsight is 20/20.

I appreciate the criticism, though.
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Postby dajafi » Sun Nov 25, 2007 13:33:10

pacino wrote:dajafi wrote a piece on your site saying he hoped Conlin would be fired over the incident. I'd say that him being fired has everything to do with this. It won't happen, nor should it.

I would hope he gets some kind of talking to from his boss though.


FWIW, I no longer hope he gets fired over this.

I don't like Conlin; I don't think he's a good person. But that's my opinion; more and more as I get older, I realize just how little my opinion really counts for. That's not self-abasement, just (I think) appropriate modesty. My opinion shouldn't have the force of action in anyone's life but mine.

Conlin is completely at liberty to be a jerk; I wouldn't mind seeing the market do him in professionally, in realization that increasingly he's an idiot as well as a jerk, but a stupid, offensive, pretentious line in an e-mail shouldn't end his career.

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Postby swishnicholson » Sun Nov 25, 2007 13:37:36

CrashburnAlley wrote:
I'm as big a Jimmy Rollins fan as anyone, and even the Sabermetrics make a decent case for Rollins, but not for Rollins v. Wright.




Thanks for the courtesy of your extended reply. Just as aside, thanks also for the interesting, and compelling case you made for Wright vs. Rollins. I think Wright's candidacy was somewhat overlooked due to the fact that he was helping solidify his credentials by having a fine September while the Mets were collapsing. In the wacky world we live in, some of those who didn't overlook him may have actually held this against him.

Personally I'm OK with Rollins as the choice, but can see a number of deserving candidates, including Wright.
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Postby CrashburnAlley » Sun Nov 25, 2007 13:49:13

As one of the parties involved in this little debacle, dajafi, I would feel bad (despite many who have tried to convince me that I shouldn't) if Conlin gets fired over this. Actually, I mentioned it on The Good Phight:

Eh, I just wouldn't want the guy to get depressed or anything. Maybe he's the breadwinner for his family...

He said some hurtful things, but that doesn't mean he deserves the worst. We all say harmful things at one point or another. And none of us know if he really meant that.

I'm offended by what he said, but as a humanitarian, I would feel bad if his life was tarnished by a slip of the tongue.


Swish, I'm actually not particularly interested in a player's production in a particular month. I personally think April is just as important as September.

Wright had a bad April, Rollins had a bad May. The rest of their respective seasons were great, I just feel Wright's was better.

I wish we could ascribe a numerical value to our current intangibles like leadership, grit, etc. because I could make the case for Rollins that I badly want to make (presuming, of course, he actually beats out Wright and others in those areas).
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Postby 1 » Sun Nov 25, 2007 13:56:53

OOOO- our very own developing story!!!
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Postby hurstad » Sun Nov 25, 2007 14:03:28

has it been mentioned yet that gagaroo isn't in any dictionary I've found, both in print and online?

OED has slang as well, and it isn't in there...

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Postby swishnicholson » Sun Nov 25, 2007 14:26:17

CrashburnAlley wrote:
Swish, I'm actually not particularly interested in a player's production in a particular month. I personally think April is just as important as September.

Wright had a bad April, Rollins had a bad May. The rest of their respective seasons were great, I just feel Wright's was better.



Sorry if I was unclear. My point about Wright's September was that some voters may have already decided by the end of August who the MVP candidates were, and so Wright's excellent September did not register with them, and others may have looked at his September stats and decided that if Wright performing so well couldn't stop the Mets from falling apart, then how valuable could he be?

I also feel that the best player over the course of a season is the best player over the course of a season, and I don't really care how they got there-strong start, strong finish, whatever.
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Postby pacino » Sun Nov 25, 2007 14:53:06

1 wrote:OOOO- our very own developing story!!!

this is what our board needs, controversy and mayhem with sportswriters
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Postby FTN » Sun Nov 25, 2007 14:55:22

Will Marcus Hayes testify at the trial?

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Postby CrashburnAlley » Sun Nov 25, 2007 14:56:33

FTN wrote:Will Marcus Hayes testify at the trial?


No, he's training for his upcoming UFC match with Bill James. Sorry to disappoint.

On a serious note, sorry to drag some of the controversy here, I just wanted to clarify a few things I was reading here.
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Postby pacino » Sun Nov 25, 2007 15:02:38

you're not dragging anything here, i was making a joke

post more, maybe we will become the next big thing where sportswriters fight bloggers to the death
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Postby swishnicholson » Sun Nov 25, 2007 15:50:18

pacino wrote:
1 wrote:OOOO- our very own developing story!!!

this is what our board needs, controversy and mayhem with sportswriters


No, our board needs 1 to come up with a video of Bill Conlin standing and singing along to "Tomorrow Belongs to Me"
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Postby 1 » Sun Nov 25, 2007 19:37:42

swishnicholson wrote:
pacino wrote:
1 wrote:OOOO- our very own developing story!!!

this is what our board needs, controversy and mayhem with sportswriters


No, our board needs 1 to come up with a video of Bill Conlin standing and singing along to "Tomorrow Belongs to Me"


I was in Cabaret once.
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Postby swishnicholson » Mon Nov 26, 2007 02:37:23

1 wrote:
swishnicholson wrote:
pacino wrote:
1 wrote:OOOO- our very own developing story!!!

this is what our board needs, controversy and mayhem with sportswriters


No, our board needs 1 to come up with a video of Bill Conlin standing and singing along to "Tomorrow Belongs to Me"


I was in Cabaret once.


Well, there you go. We don't really need a video, by the way, I just thought it was a funny image. Bill Conlin standing, I mean.
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Postby Philly the Kid » Mon Nov 26, 2007 03:16:18

Is this Conlin thing with the blogger being covered outside of the blogosphere or boards like this? Will this even get mention in a paper or on WIP?

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Postby Disco Stu » Mon Nov 26, 2007 04:15:28

Philly the Kid wrote:Is this Conlin thing with the blogger being covered outside of the blogosphere or boards like this? Will this even get mention in a paper or on WIP?


No. Yes.
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Postby GrizzledVeteran » Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:56:56

Philly the Kid wrote:Is this Conlin thing with the blogger being covered outside of the blogosphere or boards like this? Will this even get mention in a paper or on WIP?


That depends. Does anyone on WIP know what a BLOG is?
Last edited by GrizzledVeteran on Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:05:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby philliesr98 » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:00:04

GrizzledVeteran wrote:
Philly the Kid wrote:Is this Conlin thing with the blogger being covered outside of the blogosphere or boards like this? Will this even get mention in a paper or on WIP?


That depends. Does anyone on WIP know what a bog is?


a quagmire?

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Postby Woody » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:01:15

A bog is where they'll probably find Crashburn when all is said and done. It's rumored that Conlin is backed by the mob

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Postby GrizzledVeteran » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:05:28

philliesr98 wrote:
GrizzledVeteran wrote:
Philly the Kid wrote:Is this Conlin thing with the blogger being covered outside of the blogosphere or boards like this? Will this even get mention in a paper or on WIP?


That depends. Does anyone on WIP know what a bog is?


a quagmire?


Friggin typos. :oops:
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