gr wrote:We may have to put a cap on +/- in discussions, or at least mandate that you have to cite at least one other stat in the same sentence. Starting to hit hot taek territory.

one more for you babbe, courtesy nate duncan:

that was the first time in NBA history a team had a guy play 45 minutes of +10 ball and lost in regulation

MoBettle wrote:Plus minus isn’t perfect or anything but given that they literally couldn’t score or stop the Raptors from scoring without Jo in the game the last 3 (4?) games of the series it seems pretty accurate.

That being said, it’s also true that Jo had to play better for us to win this series with the team we had. Not like dismissing him or anything that’s just how it works. He just said in his exit interview that he took the blame all on him, he gets it.

Agree on all points here. It shows his value relative to the current roster but IMO indicates the latter more than the former during this series.

Can use +/- all you want, but in the NBA the stars are what win you titles. Obviously, it's not like baseball where Cody Ross' can carry you to championships. For the Sixers to win championships, they need to do it with Embiid carrying them. His playoff production was significantly worse than his regular season production, and that's just not going to cut it. Happened last year vs Boston too. The excuse then was "he doesn't have any help, so Boston could just double team him, it's not his fault." This year he had the help, he was apparently feeling good for game 7, he was over his flu or whatever it was. And he played an average game(for his standards). If he's even slightly above average the Sixers move on. He couldn't do it.

You saw in the first game yesterday one of Portland's stars carry them in the big game. Our biggest star couldn't.

All his work and dedication this summer needs to be so he can carry the team in those spots next season.

Very well said.

He kinda did carry them though, just defensively instead of offensively. The effect of what happened when he was off the court proves that. Did he play his best two-way game ever? Probably not. But you also said "one of" Portland's biggest stars. Not their biggest star. Their biggest star played like trash and would have been the story of the offseason if McCollum didn't go off, but nobody's going to talk about that because someone else stepped up.

I just think sometimes we tend to look at these "this guy took over" things strictly from an offensive perspective. Embiid was the Sixers best and most important player on the floor. Toronto just had a better one. Maybe as Embiid gains more experience, he'll be that guy. Kawhi wasn't that guy at this stage of his career either. He could occasionally take over a game, but not consistently dominant as he is now.

It's not just about work, dedication, or whatever buzz word we want to use to imply that Embiid didn't work hard or didn't want it enough before. A lot of it is quite simply experience and the natural growth of his game.

Didn’t make enough shots but the kid has heart and will improve if the body cooperates

mcare89 wrote:He kinda did carry them though, just defensively instead of offensively. The effect of what happened when he was off the court proves that. Did he play his best two-way game ever? Probably not. But you also said "one of" Portland's biggest stars. Not their biggest star. Their biggest star played like trash and would have been the story of the offseason if McCollum didn't go off, but nobody's going to talk about that because someone else stepped up.

I just think sometimes we tend to look at these "this guy took over" things strictly from an offensive perspective. Embiid was the Sixers best and most important player on the floor. Toronto just had a better one. Maybe as Embiid gains more experience, he'll be that guy. Kawhi wasn't that guy at this stage of his career either. He could occasionally take over a game, but not consistently dominant as he is now.

It's not just about work, dedication, or whatever buzz word we want to use to imply that Embiid didn't work hard or didn't want it enough before. A lot of it is quite simply experience and the natural growth of his game.

In the series defensively he did, well most of the series. I don't think game 7 was his best defensive game, and game 4 I didn't think he was there on either side of the ball for most of the night. McCollum carried the Blazers in game 7, but Dame has been amazing these playoffs overall.

I think, and hope, Embiid will mature and learn and grow and become that guy. But what makes his struggles more frustrating than say someone else that age is they don't have what Embiid has. The guy was just born to be a mountain of a human being. He's bigger, stronger, and more athletic than every big on the court every single night. Kawhi can't say that. He's an amazing player, but he doesn't have a physically imposing gift, other than say maybe his hand size, that gives him a physical advantage to dominate over his opponents. He built up his game through hard work and dedication.

Embiid was given a gift. Few people in NBA history are his size and athleticism and strength in one package. Honestly, maybe none. He has such a leg up on anyone he faces because of these in-born traits, it's far more disappointing than most other stars when they don't play their best in the biggest moments because Gasol should be terrified of Embiid, not the other way around. Every single time Gasol steps out on the court against Embiid it's a mismatch in strength, athleticism, and size. And to struggle that much offensively in this series, man it was disappointing.

You combine his traits with Kawhi's work ethic(not saying Embiid doesn't work hard, but Kawhi's is second to none) and Embiid could average 33 and 15 a night. He's that physically gifted. I hope he takes this summer seriously enough to get there.

Shadow wrote:Kawhi can't say that. He's an amazing player, but he doesn't have a physically imposing gift, other than say maybe his hand size, that gives him a physical advantage to dominate over his opponents. He built up his game through hard work and dedication.

Kawhi Leonard is a freak athlete with a 7-3 wingspan, this is hardly TJ McConnell we're talking about here. He worked hard to develop a jump shot, obviously, but he has physical gifts that rival Embiid's. And this is also the same Kawhi Leonard who sat out most of a season while his team's medical staff was sitting there saying "uhhh we cleared him months ago." I'm not saying Kawhi doesn't work hard, obviously he does, but again, we don't need to craft the narrative that one guy works hard while the other doesn't.

Every report on Embiid is how hard he works and it's bullshit to pretend he doesn't because he got sick at the wrong time and because people want to twist a couple puff pieces about him into pretending that he's a fat slob who doesn't give a shit.

Kawhi is an excellent athlete. Embiid is the most impressive physical specimen in NBA history.

At some point he needs to be a dominant playoff player. He disappointed the first two playoffs he’s been in, hope next season he becomes what we expect.