TenuredVulture wrote:See, this is the thing, we don't really need a car at all. It would be convenient to have a second car, but it's not a need.

The vehicle would be Mrs. Vulture's drive around town car, which would involve groceries, hauling perhaps 3 children and 2 adults around, and periodically used for long out of town overnight car trips that involve more luggage than you'd think three people really need. Highway gas mileage is therefore important, and we don't want to get killed with around town mileage.

Mrs. Vulture is concerned the Saturn would be too small, I think it'd be just right.

So she would be driving it and she wants one over the other. Seems simple enough.

You can afford it tenure man

MrsVulture wants this...
MrsVulture doesn't want that...

I see where this is going.

My current car is starting to pile up a few annoyances so I'm looking at some 2009 models. Anyone have opinions on any of the following?

Pontiac G8 ([Pontiac] [Edmunds]) -- rear-wheel drive in the northeast (even with limited amounts of snow and ice) seems like a bad idea

Nissan Maxima ([Nissan] [Edmunds]) -- redesigned for 2009

Lexus ES 350 ([Lexus] [Edmunds])

I also looked at similar Acuras and Audis but didn't really like the look of them..

Pontiac- no because it's a GM and they usually suck (plus the rear drive)

Nissan- 1st year models often have problems and recalls, better to wait until the next year.

Lexus- great car, but you can get a gussied up Toyota Camry for less money

It is basic economics that buying a new car is not a good investment.

true, but if you own the car for 6-10 years and the first 5/50K or whatever is covered by warranty, it's worth it

BigEd76 wrote:true, but if you own the car for 6-10 years and the first 5/50K or whatever is covered by warranty, it's worth it

The more reliable the car, the less likely this is to be true.

TheDude24 wrote:It is basic economics that buying a new car is not a good investment.

well duh, cars are never "investments", they are tools that depreciate like your washer or refrigerator

The Red Tornado wrote:

TheDude24 wrote:It is basic economics that buying a new car is not a good investment.

well duh, cars are never "investments", they are tools that depreciate like your washer or refrigerator

We bought a washer and a drier 12 years ago. While the drier crapped out about two years ago (replaced with one we bought at a yard sale for $90) the washer is still going strong, despite have been moved 4 times now.

Checked the air tire pressure on my car at lunch today. The front right was 12 and the rear right was 6

It's minivan time. Recommendations?

Trent Steele wrote:It's minivan time. Recommendations?

seriously? just get a full size car

jamiethekiller wrote:

Trent Steele wrote:It's minivan time. Recommendations?

seriously? just get a full size car

wife wants what wife wants.

TheDude24 wrote:It is basic economics that buying a new car is not a good investment.

phatj wrote:

BigEd76 wrote:true, but if you own the car for 6-10 years and the first 5/50K or whatever is covered by warranty, it's worth it

The more reliable the car, the less likely this is to be true.

I'm with BigEd here. The wife is big on the theoretical "buy a car after the first two years of depreciation" thing. But in practice, these seem to be cars off lease. And owned by lesees who don't give a crap about the car because it won't be theirs very long.

SO, if you want to keep a car past 100K and beyond, acquiring it new and making sure it's properly maintained really will help you get past that 100K mark and well beyond.

My wife is nearing the end run of the third "two year old" car she's had in the same period I've owned my new car. I expect the count will be four or five of her "two year old" cars by the time my "new car" is ready for the scrap heap.

Now I realize that this won't work for everyone...not everybody wants to drive a 10-12 year old rattle cage. But as long as its reliable and gets me through the snow, the condition of the car doesn't really bother me.

TheDude24 wrote:It is basic economics that buying a new car is not a good investment.

It is if it helps you score with the womenz.

Anyone ever pay for detailing? Or do you just do it yourself?

I'm looking into it as a Christmas gift and was wondering what the going rate was for a full interior & exterior service would be.

jamiethekiller wrote:

Trent Steele wrote:It's minivan time. Recommendations?

seriously? just get a full size car

I went from a toyota avalon ('02) to a toyota sienna ('05) this summer. The avalon was fantastic. It is the best car Vox and I have EVER owned. But even with it's roomy interior, you couldn't fit more than two adults and two carseats in it. Maybe an older kid could sit comfortably between the two carseats, but that's it. And quite often we go places with just one more adult, and it's annoying to have to take two cars.

And also I realized when I took the kids to SC this summer that the Vox family vacation was going to need two cars if we didn't get something bigger. We were planning on getting something newer anyway. I went used to test the minivan waters.

So, I got an XLE limited with nearly every option except navigation and AWD. It gets good gas mileage (19.1 average). The AWD version that we were looking at as well got 14.something and really handled stiffly. I could really feel the difference between the two. The AWD version had the navi too, and it was really distracting. I decided then I'd rather have one that Vox could borrow if he needed, etc. And they don't really advertise this as much as Honda does, but the AWD version only comes with run flat tires, which don't last as long and are more expensive to replace than regular tires.

It's takes getting used to the size of the thing. But otherwise, it doesn't drive much differently than the Avalon did.

When we went shopping, I knew that I wanted leather (easier clean-up for kids messes) and power doors, and that I'd rather have the seven-seater than the eight-seater. The power doors have proven to be all that they are cracked up to be, I would never trade them. There's something weird about the non-power doors -- if the windows are down, they don't lock into place. I was looking at a new one at the dealer, and the doors kept sliding back on me. With the powers (and liftgate) there's a safety mechanism that slides the door back if it meets resistance. While I don't think that BabyVox's little arm would stop it without injury, I have stopped the door several times with just the force of my arm, without getting hurt.

We've taken out the seat behind the passenger seat. It's something I've seen other moms do. If you aren't regularly carting around four or five passengers in the back, it makes getting in and out of the car a lot easier. BabyVox sits behind me, and VoxJr in the back row on the passenger side.

I'll say the only thing I don't like about it is that there's a huge console between the driver and passenger seat, which pretty much prevents me from getting to the back of the van without getting out my door and going in another door. The console is great for storage though, so it's a catch-22. You can take the console out and put it between the second-row seats, but we don't have the replacement piece to cover the brackets. And there would still be something to step over. The console is what you get with the XLE, other trim levels have a tray that folds down against the driver's seat.

Earlier in the year we looked at some Town and Countrys, both new and used. I'd say that I like the Japanese better, but I've always preferred imports over domestics. I leaned towards the Toyota over the Honda Odyssey for two reasons. Besides our good luck with Toyotas, the interior of the Sienna is nearly identical to the Avalon, and we even ended up with the same color, so not a huge learning curve there. And, we weren't really happy with Honda that Vox got rid of earlier in the year. We get WAY better service at our Toyota dealer. The Honda dealer (I take the cars to get serviced) was always pissing me off and making us wait hours for even minor service.

Oh, I did drive a couple of Nissan Quests too. Not the new ones. I agree with the Edmunds reviews that the console was difficult to use. Otherwise, I didn't have any complaints.

The only other thing I'll say is that we discussed crossovers vs. mini-vans for a long time too. In the end, I'll say that for hauling kids, the minivans have two benefits -- the sliding doors and the cargo space. There's a mom in VoxJr's karate class, with three boys, so she's using all three rows, and I see her struggling to get her jogging stroller to fit in the cargo area. And the sliding doors are just good because you don't have to worry about hitting other cars in tight parking spots, and if you keep it in the garage, it gives you more room as well (I park pretty close to one of the walls).

Marion wrote:Anyone ever pay for detailing? Or do you just do it yourself?

I'm looking into it as a Christmas gift and was wondering what the going rate was for a full interior & exterior service would be.

It depends on the level of detailing. Every 3 months I usually get a "basic" job: exterior wash, vacuum, clean the dash and other interior surfaces, etc. I pay like $55 for that at the car wash in Wesh Conshy next to the Wawa.

Of course, there are higher levels- hand waxing, q-tip clean the interior, polish the wheels, etc., that will cost a lot more. I'd put $100 at a good benchmark.

MrsVox wrote:

jamiethekiller wrote:

Trent Steele wrote:It's minivan time. Recommendations?

seriously? just get a full size car

I went from a toyota avalon ('02) to a toyota sienna ('05) this summer. The avalon was fantastic. It is the best car Vox and I have EVER owned. But even with it's roomy interior, you couldn't fit more than two adults and two carseats in it. Maybe an older kid could sit comfortably between the two carseats, but that's it. And quite often we go places with just one more adult, and it's annoying to have to take two cars.

And also I realized when I took the kids to SC this summer that the Vox family vacation was going to need two cars if we didn't get something bigger. We were planning on getting something newer anyway. I went used to test the minivan waters.

So, I got an XLE limited with nearly every option except navigation and AWD. It gets good gas mileage (19.1 average). The AWD version that we were looking at as well got 14.something and really handled stiffly. I could really feel the difference between the two. The AWD version had the navi too, and it was really distracting. I decided then I'd rather have one that Vox could borrow if he needed, etc. And they don't really advertise this as much as Honda does, but the AWD version only comes with run flat tires, which don't last as long and are more expensive to replace than regular tires.

It's takes getting used to the size of the thing. But otherwise, it doesn't drive much differently than the Avalon did.

When we went shopping, I knew that I wanted leather (easier clean-up for kids messes) and power doors, and that I'd rather have the seven-seater than the eight-seater. The power doors have proven to be all that they are cracked up to be, I would never trade them. There's something weird about the non-power doors -- if the windows are down, they don't lock into place. I was looking at a new one at the dealer, and the doors kept sliding back on me. With the powers (and liftgate) there's a safety mechanism that slides the door back if it meets resistance. While I don't think that BabyVox's little arm would stop it without injury, I have stopped the door several times with just the force of my arm, without getting hurt.

We've taken out the seat behind the passenger seat. It's something I've seen other moms do. If you aren't regularly carting around four or five passengers in the back, it makes getting in and out of the car a lot easier. BabyVox sits behind me, and VoxJr in the back row on the passenger side.

I'll say the only thing I don't like about it is that there's a huge console between the driver and passenger seat, which pretty much prevents me from getting to the back of the van without getting out my door and going in another door. The console is great for storage though, so it's a catch-22. You can take the console out and put it between the second-row seats, but we don't have the replacement piece to cover the brackets. And there would still be something to step over. The console is what you get with the XLE, other trim levels have a tray that folds down against the driver's seat.

Earlier in the year we looked at some Town and Countrys, both new and used. I'd say that I like the Japanese better, but I've always preferred imports over domestics. I leaned towards the Toyota over the Honda Odyssey for two reasons. Besides our good luck with Toyotas, the interior of the Sienna is nearly identical to the Avalon, and we even ended up with the same color, so not a huge learning curve there. And, we weren't really happy with Honda that Vox got rid of earlier in the year. We get WAY better service at our Toyota dealer. The Honda dealer (I take the cars to get serviced) was always pissing me off and making us wait hours for even minor service.

Oh, I did drive a couple of Nissan Quests too. Not the new ones. I agree with the Edmunds reviews that the console was difficult to use. Otherwise, I didn't have any complaints.

The only other thing I'll say is that we discussed crossovers vs. mini-vans for a long time too. In the end, I'll say that for hauling kids, the minivans have two benefits -- the sliding doors and the cargo space. There's a mom in VoxJr's karate class, with three boys, so she's using all three rows, and I see her struggling to get her jogging stroller to fit in the cargo area. And the sliding doors are just good because you don't have to worry about hitting other cars in tight parking spots, and if you keep it in the garage, it gives you more room as well (I park pretty close to one of the walls).

Thanks for the info.

Trent Steele wrote:

MrsVox wrote:

jamiethekiller wrote:

Trent Steele wrote:It's minivan time. Recommendations?

seriously? just get a full size car

<snip>

Thanks for the info.

Ditto. With the second one on the way, I'm strongly leaning towards a minivan or something else with significantly more people/cargo volume than a normal sedan type car.

Did you (or anyone) ever drive one of the Korean minivans, i.e. the Hyundai Entourage or Kia Sedona? They're quite a bit cheaper than the Japanese equivalents but are pretty well-equipped. They seem to be well-reviewed overall.