We got a new Phillie Phanatic

Re: We got a new Phillie Phanatic

Postby Wolfgang622 » Mon Feb 24, 2020 08:55:33

JFLNYC wrote:The’ve been able to do it for decades because they had a license from the Phantic’s creators. Now that license has purportedly been terminated pursuant to the provisions of the Copyright Act of 1976 which specifically allows for the termination of such licenses after 35 years. The termination provision replaced the 1909 Act’s mechanism of an initial copyright period of 28 years which could be renewed for another 28, thereby giving creators a second bite at the apple.

The termination provisions were a bedrock part of the new law which sought to protect creators from just such licenses as this, i.e., licenses entered into before the true value of a creator’s work could be established. The law makes clear that this termination right is inalienable in that it cannot be bargained away at the time of the license no matter what a signed agreement might say.


Were the Phillies just incompetent, or trying to do the creators a solid? I mean this Phanatic thing is going to wind up costing them the Phanatic or likely tens of millions of dollars. In another thread before this all started, I speculated about what the Phanatic's actual value, in monetary terms, was to the Phillies as a brand identifier. Hard to quantify, but definitely significant.

Meanwhile the lady who designed the Nike swoosh got $50 and a firm handshake and never another penny since, because she sold the work to Nike outright. And the photographer guy who clearly provided the base inspiration for the Air Jordan logo lost in court.
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Re: We got a new Phillie Phanatic

Postby Wolfgang622 » Mon Feb 24, 2020 08:56:50

Yeah the new look is also terrible and obvious in its raison d'etre, which makes it worse.
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Re: We got a new Phillie Phanatic

Postby stevelxa476 » Mon Feb 24, 2020 09:27:28

Wolfgang622 wrote:Meanwhile the lady who designed the Nike swoosh got $50 and a firm handshake and never another penny since, because she sold the work to Nike outright.


Phil Knight also gave her 500 shares of Nike stock as a thank you gift 12 years after she designed the logo. Factoring in stock splits since 1983 and assuming she never sold any of it, that's a $3.2M gift as of this morning.
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Re: We got a new Phillie Phanatic

Postby Uncle Milty » Mon Feb 24, 2020 09:38:23

The Phanatic's value is tied to being mascot for the Phillies. In another role he's the next pet rock, cabbage patch doll or beanie baby.
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Re: We got a new Phillie Phanatic

Postby Bucky » Mon Feb 24, 2020 09:39:56

or the aforementioned san diego famous chicken

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Re: We got a new Phillie Phanatic

Postby JFLNYC » Mon Feb 24, 2020 09:45:29

Bill Giles has admitted publicly that not getting all rights to the Phanatic at inception was the worst mistake he ever made. Yes, the Phillies have bungled the copyright issue from the beginning. When I have more time I’ll discuss the Phillies legal arguments and why they’re problematic for the team.

By the way, the Nike logo is a trademark and not a copyright so comparisons to the Phanatic are inapt.
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Re: We got a new Phillie Phanatic

Postby Wolfgang622 » Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:37:15

Uncle Milty wrote:The Phanatic's value is tied to being mascot for the Phillies. In another role he's the next pet rock, cabbage patch doll or beanie baby.


I don't know... what if he became, say, the Cubs fanatic? Or the Angels fanatic? Or what if he switched over to the Sixers, for example? I'd bet the Sixers would love to have him over that charmless and senseless dog they use.

If he just switched baseball teams, specifically to one in a large market without a strong brand identifier, it would be a huge, national story.
Last edited by Wolfgang622 on Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:42:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: We got a new Phillie Phanatic

Postby Wolfgang622 » Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:40:57

JFLNYC wrote:By the way, the Nike logo is a trademark and not a copyright so comparisons to the Phanatic are inapt.


I know they are not the same, I was just pointing out that somehow Nike can get these things done in a way that profits them untold billions and the Phillies are going to wind up paying through the nose or watching the Phanatic sign with another team.

Before all of this broke last year, way back in July of 2018, I posted this:

Wolfgang622 wrote:I think we should have a more fun version of the Mendoza line that is Phillies specific called the Phanatic line.

The premise being: would you trade the Phanatic to get the player in question?

Manny Machado: obv
Chris Davis: obv not
Mike Moustakas: I gotta go no

If the player is already on the Phillies, would you let the Phanatic pitch or hit in his place?


I thought I was kidding, but this may soon become reality.
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Re: We got a new Phillie Phanatic

Postby swishnicholson » Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:00:43

Rockinghorse wrote:The shorter snout looks odd, but I honestly may not have noticed anything different if not for the publicity.
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Re: We got a new Phillie Phanatic

Postby Ace Rothstein » Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:11:13

swishnicholson wrote:
Rockinghorse wrote:The shorter snout looks odd, but I honestly may not have noticed anything different if not for the publicity.


The blue tail and the arm scales? are pretty noticeable

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Re: We got a new Phillie Phanatic

Postby jamiethekiller » Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:59:32

would any team even sign the phanatic? they're so intertwined together. The phillies can make a new mascot and in 10 years it'll be normal. If no one signs the phanatic, what happens to them? just a lifetime of birthday parties?

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Re: We got a new Phillie Phanatic

Postby The B1G Piece » Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:35:19

Ace Rothstein wrote:
swishnicholson wrote:
Rockinghorse wrote:The shorter snout looks odd, but I honestly may not have noticed anything different if not for the publicity.


The blue tail and the arm scales? are pretty noticeable

Shoes are different, eyes look different, he's wearing a helmet instead of a hat, etc.

The changes are the settlement, IMO.

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Re: We got a new Phillie Phanatic

Postby Bill McNeal » Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:37:41

jamiethekiller wrote:would any team even sign the phanatic? they're so intertwined together. The phillies can make a new mascot and in 10 years it'll be normal. If no one signs the phanatic, what happens to them? just a lifetime of birthday parties?


Yeah, I think if the Phillies lose the license and can’t come to an agreement on a renewal, the phanatic will just kind of fade away. In a year or two, is anyone even going to be booking him for birthdays? Kids won’t know who he is anymore, so he’d just be a really expensive clown eventually.
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Re: We got a new Phillie Phanatic

Postby azrider » Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:41:36

the san diego chicken did ok in free agency i guess. he whored himself out anywhere he could. the phanatic is in the hall of fame and could probably open up a mascot training school or schools throughout the entire country.

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Re: We got a new Phillie Phanatic

Postby stevemc » Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:43:26

azrider wrote:the san diego chicken did ok in free agency i guess. he whored himself out anywhere he could. the phanatic is in the hall of fame and could probably open up a mascot training school or schools throughout the entire countr.


Dave Raymond already does it

https://raymondeg.com/

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Re: We got a new Phillie Phanatic

Postby ReadingPhilly » Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:43:46

azrider wrote:the phanatic is in the hall of fame and could probably open up a mascot training school or schools throughout the entire country.


he's being doing that for the last 20 years.

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Re: We got a new Phillie Phanatic

Postby swishnicholson » Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:50:01

Ace Rothstein wrote:
swishnicholson wrote:
Rockinghorse wrote:The shorter snout looks odd, but I honestly may not have noticed anything different if not for the publicity.


The blue tail and the arm scales? are pretty noticeable


I had to look at a half dozen pictures to figure out what people were talking about with the arm scales. Blue tail is pretty noticeable. I can see myself thinking, Did the Phanatic always have a blue rail?
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Re: We got a new Phillie Phanatic

Postby Werthless » Mon Feb 24, 2020 13:04:49

CFP wrote:It's a damn costume for children. They don't care. They won't notice the difference. Who cares

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Re: We got a new Phillie Phanatic

Postby stevelxa476 » Mon Feb 24, 2020 13:04:57

He always had a blue tail. It was just a darker blue.
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Re: We got a new Phillie Phanatic

Postby GrizzledVeteran » Mon Feb 24, 2020 13:10:44

Uncle Milty wrote:
CFP wrote:It's a damn costume for children. They don't care. They won't notice the difference. Who cares

This won't sit well with our Grizzled Veteran


I care. The scales suck. Will the new snout fit in a popcorn bucket?

But the big thing is, he didn't get booed when he was introduced. The personality remains intact.
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