"Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby drsmooth » Fri May 29, 2015 08:11:20

Not sure I get the cash mechanism in this Hastert thing. Are "no-show" jobs not a thing anymore, for instance? I'll grant that to launder $3 million, we'd be talking the mother of no-show jobs, but still.....

Anyway, there has to have been a more discrete way to enable the free market to do its work. Hastert's been a lobbyist for years; they make money appear out of nowhere every single day.
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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby Bucky » Fri May 29, 2015 08:16:36

it seems to me that the poster boy for the "let them have their wealth!" crowd is bill gates- "how are people going to be motivated to do great things if they have to share all their money?!??!". To me, that's a semi red herring. I do believe that people who innovate, invent, and create should be allowed to reap the benefits of that which they sow. However, I guess it all comes down to how you define 'value generation'. The other .99% of the top .1 % is largely based of middlemen- those who make their fortunes based on money changing hands only, without any value add. I feel totally OK saying these people shouldn't be able to get filthy rich off the backs of others. We want our best and brightest to be involved in the betterment of society- inventing, healing, theorizing, etc.; not speculating stocks and short-selling the misfortunes of others.

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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby Soren » Fri May 29, 2015 08:18:23

jerseyhoya wrote:Former House Speaker Dennis Hastert Indicted On Federal Charges

Unclear what the "prior bad acts" are at this point, but to pay $3.5 million all these years later I'm gonna guess the answer will be not the best


Odds are pretty good the specifics are going to come to light right? He's being charged with the financial foul acts but the investigation turns up the dirt?
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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby pacino » Fri May 29, 2015 08:27:57

pregnant woman falsely arrested for not IDing herself to a policeman. she was 8 months pregnant and put to the ground in a false arrested.

they later dropped the charges but stated that she was 'actively resisting arrest' so nothing was wrong. But she was erroneously being arrested and knew it...was she supposed to lay down and say 'yes sir please arrested me illegally sir'. I mean WTF.

this all stems from some lady calling the cops because they had a disagreement outside her daughter's school. An 8 months' pregnant woman got a little 'crazy'?! Who saw this coming:

The officer can be heard on video speaking to the unidentified school employee, who accuses Cooks of acting “all crazy,” before acknowledging that he didn’t “see a crime that has been committed.” He promises the woman, whose identification and name he did not request, a police report before walking over to speak to Cooks.

Cooks tells the officer her side of the story, saying that the woman frightened her daughter.

“She called the police for whatever reason, I don’t know,” Cooks says. “Should I feel threatened by her because she’s white? Because she’s white and she’s making threats to me?”

The officer asks Cooks for identification but she refuses, saying that she is not required to.

“I actually do have the right to ask you for your name,” the officer insists.

“Let me make sure,” Cooks counters, using her cellphone to call someone.

The officer initially says that he would give Cooks two minutes to confirm his right to ask for ID, but after interrupting the phone conversation twice in less than a minute, the officer, along with another colleague, takes Cooks to the ground, belly first, in a wristlock.

“Please! I’m pregnant! Please stop this!” Cooks can be heard screaming while on the ground.

Officers eventually put her in the back of a cruiser and go through her belongings in search of ID.

Cooks was charged with resisting arrest, but a judge ultimately dismissed the charges


“I don’t think I’ve ever been that terrified in my life,” Cooks told the Dispatch. “I never saw that coming. I told him I was pregnant so he could proceed with caution. That didn’t happen, and the first thing I thought was I didn’t want to fall to the ground. I felt the pressure on my stomach from falling, and I was calling for help. But those guys are supposed to help me. But who is supposed to help me when they are attacking me?”

An ACLU lawyer explained that Cooks had the right to refuse to identify herself.

“It would be a wrongful arrest, but it would be an arrest. ... Even if an officer is conducting an investigation, in California, unlike some other states, he can’t just require a person to provide ID for no reason,” attorney Adrienna Wong said in a press release. “Officers in California should not be using the obstruction law, Penal Code 148, to arrest someone for failing to provide ID, when they can’t find any other reason to arrest them.”

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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby The Crimson Cyclone » Fri May 29, 2015 08:49:28

there are no "stop and identify" laws in California
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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby Squire » Fri May 29, 2015 09:11:56

Soren wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Former House Speaker Dennis Hastert Indicted On Federal Charges

Unclear what the "prior bad acts" are at this point, but to pay $3.5 million all these years later I'm gonna guess the answer will be not the best


Odds are pretty good the specifics are going to come to light right? He's being charged with the financial foul acts but the investigation turns up the dirt?


Agreed. That sounds pretty bad.

That being said, I always thought the law they got him on here was total BS. There is a reporting threshold for certain payments. But then if you structure something so as to avoid the reporting requirement, that's illegal too? Isn't that like saying driving 54 MPH is also illegal because you are only doing it to not get a speeding ticket.

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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby Soren » Fri May 29, 2015 09:23:44

Squire wrote:
Soren wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Former House Speaker Dennis Hastert Indicted On Federal Charges

Unclear what the "prior bad acts" are at this point, but to pay $3.5 million all these years later I'm gonna guess the answer will be not the best


Odds are pretty good the specifics are going to come to light right? He's being charged with the financial foul acts but the investigation turns up the dirt?


Agreed. That sounds pretty bad.

That being said, I always thought the law they got him on here was total BS. There is a reporting threshold for certain payments. But then if you structure something so as to avoid the reporting requirement, that's illegal too? Isn't that like saying driving 54 MPH is also illegal because you are only doing it to not get a speeding ticket.


Right, but the difference is that driving 54 as opposed to say 60 or 65 has tangible benefits to the public welfare whereas making bribery payments in small increments does not. In fact the latter only servers to mask criminal activity as opposed to preventing harm as the former does.
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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby pacino » Fri May 29, 2015 09:54:25

pacino wrote:Nebraska voted to end the death penalty, Gov is expected to veto.

VETO PROOF


Nebraska did it!
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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby Bucky » Fri May 29, 2015 10:14:40

Squire wrote:
Soren wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Former House Speaker Dennis Hastert Indicted On Federal Charges

Unclear what the "prior bad acts" are at this point, but to pay $3.5 million all these years later I'm gonna guess the answer will be not the best


Odds are pretty good the specifics are going to come to light right? He's being charged with the financial foul acts but the investigation turns up the dirt?


Agreed. That sounds pretty bad.

That being said, I always thought the law they got him on here was total BS. There is a reporting threshold for certain payments. But then if you structure something so as to avoid the reporting requirement, that's illegal too? Isn't that like saying driving 54 MPH is also illegal because you are only doing it to not get a speeding ticket.


yes, structuring something to purposefully avoid a reporting requirement where one would otherwise exist is illegal. It's evasion. If things like this weren't prosecutable, then they'd have no minimum reporting requirement and the paperwork would be mountainous.

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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby pacino » Fri May 29, 2015 10:42:12

Another Putin opponent poisoned in Russia
the Kremlin denied any involvement. again.
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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby Luzinski's Gut » Fri May 29, 2015 11:47:26

Agreed. Common Core is a boondoggle.

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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby Squire » Fri May 29, 2015 11:58:42

Bucky wrote:
Squire wrote:
Soren wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:Former House Speaker Dennis Hastert Indicted On Federal Charges

Unclear what the "prior bad acts" are at this point, but to pay $3.5 million all these years later I'm gonna guess the answer will be not the best


Odds are pretty good the specifics are going to come to light right? He's being charged with the financial foul acts but the investigation turns up the dirt?


Agreed. That sounds pretty bad.

That being said, I always thought the law they got him on here was total BS. There is a reporting threshold for certain payments. But then if you structure something so as to avoid the reporting requirement, that's illegal too? Isn't that like saying driving 54 MPH is also illegal because you are only doing it to not get a speeding ticket.


yes, structuring something to purposefully avoid a reporting requirement where one would otherwise exist is illegal. It's evasion. If things like this weren't prosecutable, then they'd have no minimum reporting requirement and the paperwork would be mountainous.


one man's compliance is another man's evasion I guess.

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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby momadance » Fri May 29, 2015 13:43:22

traderdave wrote:
momadance wrote:Good. Common Core is a #$!&@ disaster. At least he did something right for a change.


How so?


Because common core is a complete and utter failure that never have been invented? If you're trying to defend common core, than I got nothing. It's an indefensible system.

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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby Bucky » Fri May 29, 2015 13:49:51

momadance wrote:
traderdave wrote:
momadance wrote:Good. Common Core is a #$!&@ disaster. At least he did something right for a change.


How so?


Because common core is a complete and utter failure that never have been invented? If you're trying to defend common core, than I got nothing. It's an indefensible system.



I think for a subset of students, common core math is a brilliant way to get them to understand number concepts that were previously outside of their grasp. However, for most (I can certainly be flexible and can work on that term) students it's just a waste of time and effort and a cause for frustration. I guess it's Lowest Common Denominator syndrome (pun intended?)

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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby momadance » Fri May 29, 2015 13:59:21

Bucky wrote:
momadance wrote:
traderdave wrote:
momadance wrote:Good. Common Core is a #$!&@ disaster. At least he did something right for a change.


How so?


Because common core is a complete and utter failure that never have been invented? If you're trying to defend common core, than I got nothing. It's an indefensible system.



I think for a subset of students, common core math is a brilliant way to get them to understand number concepts that were previously outside of their grasp. However, for most (I can certainly be flexible and can work on that term) students it's just a waste of time and effort and a cause for frustration. I guess it's Lowest Common Denominator syndrome (pun intended?)


Probably, but they shouldn't lump every student together. It's a complete waste for a majority of them. Also, it makes no sense for Christie to keep PARCC but dump common core. I missed that last sentence of traderdave's post. Thus its probably just political posturing and they'll probably just re-brand common core with a new name in this state. From nj.com:

The theory is based on the details of what Christie announced Thursday, including his continued support on Thursday of the Partnership for Assessment of Readiness for College and Careers (PARCC) exams, which are aligned to Common Core standards, educators said.

One way that Common Core could stay is with minor tweaks and a new name, said Patricia Wright, executive director of the New Jersey Principals and Supervisors Association.

The standards outline what skills students should master in each particular grade level, and Christie didn't specifically say that Common Core was deficient in that regard. He instead focused on the fact that it caused confusion and that parents and teachers wanted standards developed in New Jersey.

To design the new standards, Christie called for creating a group of parents and educators to review prior state standards and a make a recommendation. Because the state associations representing teachers, principals and superintendents all endorse Common Core, it's likely they would arrive at similar standards again, Wright said.

"We all have supported Common Core and we think they are good standards," Wright said. 'The bulk of Common Core will remain."

The New Jersey School Boards Association expressed a similar sentiment, saying it views Christie's announcement "as an opportunity to build upon an already strong set of standards."

Similar rebranding of the Common Core has happened in other states, like Indiana, pacifying opponents who demanded locally developed standards, Tienken said. The fact that Christie wants the new standards developed by the end of the year is an indication that they may not be much different, Tienken said.


http://www.nj.com/education/2015/05/com ... rs_sa.html

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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby pacino » Fri May 29, 2015 14:11:14

i think it's largely a good idea to have common core. many states prevously had some very low requirements.
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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby Bucky » Fri May 29, 2015 14:12:55

it's not the ends that are screwed up, it's the means

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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby momadance » Fri May 29, 2015 14:22:46

Bucky wrote:it's not the ends that are screwed up, it's the means


Well the ends here is the PARCC testing. Which is the main problem with all of this. As long as Pearson's is spending millions in lobbying a year, nothing will change for the better. Pearson's have testing contracts worth billions throughout the states. Their testing contract with Texas is worth $465 million. NJ's is $108 million. The whole thing is a sham. Screw the kids education to line some pockets.
Last edited by momadance on Fri May 29, 2015 14:25:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby pacino » Fri May 29, 2015 14:25:20

momadance wrote:
Bucky wrote:it's not the ends that are screwed up, it's the means


Well the ends here is the PARCC testing. Which is the main problem with all of this. Also long as Pearson's is spending millions in lobbying a year, nothing will change for the better. Pearson's have testing contracts worth billions throughout the states. Their testing contract with Texas is worth $465 million. The whole thing is a sham. Screw the kids education to line some pockets.

this is true. they make sure a certain amount of kids in certain areas get better scores to show improvement to show they are working.
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Re: "Let them eat gay cake" (Politics thread)

Postby momadance » Fri May 29, 2015 14:29:27

pacino wrote:
momadance wrote:
Bucky wrote:it's not the ends that are screwed up, it's the means


Well the ends here is the PARCC testing. Which is the main problem with all of this. Also long as Pearson's is spending millions in lobbying a year, nothing will change for the better. Pearson's have testing contracts worth billions throughout the states. Their testing contract with Texas is worth $465 million. The whole thing is a sham. Screw the kids education to line some pockets.

this is true. they make sure a certain amount of kids in certain areas get better scores to show improvement to show they are working.


My mom recently retired from teaching in Atlantic City. You basically spend the entire year teaching the kids how to take the test. That's it. They spend hours doing problem after problem of questions lifted from the PARCC. The only thing the students have learned is how to take a test to improve district scores and funding.

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