Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby RichmondPhilsFan » Mon Apr 21, 2014 15:57:39

Is that per month? Per year? Per day?

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Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby Phan In Phlorida » Mon Apr 21, 2014 16:05:50

Perhaps we should consult an expert...

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Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby pacino » Mon Apr 21, 2014 16:09:09

what do you think is hidden in that mustache
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Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby drsmooth » Mon Apr 21, 2014 17:01:37

RichmondPhilsFan wrote:Is that per month? Per year? Per day?


per year, per capita

clearly the metric needs much more massaging
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Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby pacino » Tue Apr 22, 2014 09:58:23

can you call a juice made of 99.4% apple and grape juice 'Pomgegranate Blueberry juice?:
Justice Kennedy’s question seemed in keeping with the court’s general skepticism about Coca-Cola’s arguments that it could not be sued by a rival for false advertising over the label.

The product in question, sold under Coca-Cola’s Minute Maid brand, is made almost entirely from apple and grape juice. But it is called “Pomegranate Blueberry,” followed in smaller type by the words “Flavored Blend of 5 Juices.”
The label shows a pomegranate and blueberries in front of an apple and grapes. The juices are dyed dark purple.

But the beverage contains no more than trace amounts of the two featured juices. It is 0.3 percent pomegranate juice and 0.2 percent blueberry juice. Pom Wonderful, which sells pomegranate juice, is suing for false advertising.
Kathleen M. Sullivan, a lawyer for Coca-Cola, said consumers were not misled.

“We don’t think that consumers are quite as unintelligent as Pom must think they are,” she said. “They know when something is a flavored blend of five juices and the nonpredominant juices are just a flavor.”

Justice Kennedy frowned. “Don’t make me feel bad,” he said, “because I thought that this was pomegranate juice.”
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Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby Werthless » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:20:52

Interesting... my impression was that economic mobility/variability wasn't as deep. 73 percent of the population spent at least one year in the top quintile?

…Thomas A. Hirschl of Cornell and I looked at 44 years of longitudinal data regarding individuals from ages 25 to 60 to see what percentage of the American population would experience these different levels of affluence during their lives. The results were striking.

It turns out that 12 percent of the population will find themselves in the top 1 percent of the income distribution for at least one year. What’s more, 39 percent of Americans will spend a year in the top 5 percent of the income distribution, 56 percent will find themselves in the top 10 percent, and a whopping 73 percent will spend a year in the top 20 percent of the income distribution.


- See more at: http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalr ... sfHyo.dpuf

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Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby drsmooth » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:58:14

my feeling is there are lots of questions that should be asked about Hirschl's work. It smells poop-ish to me. At first glance, it appears to ignore - actually to actively attempt to obscure - the extremity of the income curve, & particularly of changes in its extremity over time.
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Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby Werthless » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:12:40

I'm not sure what you mean exactly by actively attempt to obscure the extremity of the income curve, but a huge caveat is the study design. It only looks at old people, so it's more reflective of economic mobility in the latter half of the 20th century.You could easily argue that the data is stale and not reflective of current mobility. Nonetheless, I would have thought that many fewer than 73% were at one time in the top quintile.

I'll leave aside your comment about changes to extremities over time. That's between you and your extremity.

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Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby TenuredVulture » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:17:33

Also, income is not wealth, and wealth matters at least as much as income if not more. It would be interesting to compare the two, given that there are surely lots of retirees with little income but lots of wealth.
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Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby drsmooth » Tue Apr 22, 2014 13:24:19

Werthless wrote:I would have thought that many fewer than 73% were at one time in the top quintile.


see, here's where we agree, and where we would then squabble over the extent to which we'd feel the percentage was lower. My feeling too is it's plenty lower.

My other feeling is that the article has been sitting on a shelf whilst the editors and/or authors waited for the Piketty publicity pot to boil. I'm on the fence about plunking down $20 for the kindle edition when I KNOW the damn thing will disappoint me (I already cringe every time I see some remark about his "international wealth tax prescription", and I haven't even read his side of that story)

I'll leave aside your comment about changes to extremities over time. That's between you and your extremity.


That's extremely discrete of you, thanks
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Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby Phan In Phlorida » Tue Apr 22, 2014 14:25:17

Brutally tortured bodies found near Slaviansk, a city held by pro-russia militants. One identified as a Ukranian official.
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Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby drsmooth » Tue Apr 22, 2014 17:29:25

TenuredVulture wrote:Also, income is not wealth, and wealth matters at least as much as income if not more. It would be interesting to compare the two, given that there are surely lots of retirees with little income but lots of wealth.


well said, TV

my hunch is Hirschl et al felt that since they, like Piketty, zoomed in on incomes, their work provides a nice counter to the looming Piketty tidal wave. That may be so; but my feeling is their work will turn out to be not as sturdy as the frenchman's.

Also I would guess that there are plenty of wealthy non-retirees whose income fluctuations are not well-accounted for in Hirschl's study.
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Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby Werthless » Tue Apr 22, 2014 17:30:44

drsmooth wrote:
Werthless wrote:I would have thought that many fewer than 73% were at one time in the top quintile.


see, here's where we agree, and where we would then squabble over the extent to which we'd feel the percentage was lower. My feeling too is it's plenty lower.

My other feeling is that the article has been sitting on a shelf whilst the editors and/or authors waited for the Piketty publicity pot to boil. I'm on the fence about plunking down $20 for the kindle edition when I KNOW the damn thing will disappoint me (I already cringe every time I see some remark about his "international wealth tax prescription", and I haven't even read his side of that story)

I'll leave aside your comment about changes to extremities over time. That's between you and your extremity.


That's extremely discrete of you, thanks

I've read excerpts of critics who have been lampooning it. I'm guessing you would be disappointed in the book/logic, partly because you're generally inclined to agree with his overall worldview.

Just check it out from a library. :)

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Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby drsmooth » Tue Apr 22, 2014 18:16:08

Werthless wrote:Just check it out from a library. :)


yeah, no - all the copies in all the libraries around are already spoken for & I don't want/won't want to read it in another month or two....

eh, I've squandered $20 on lousier lays.... :)
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Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby drsmooth » Tue Apr 22, 2014 18:18:48




haven't you heard - you should never want to belong to any club that would have you as a member
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Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby drsmooth » Tue Apr 22, 2014 18:52:42

I don't read Salon, don't know who this guy is, but pretty funny (& well-aimed) take on NYTimes op-ed columnists
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Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby dajafi » Tue Apr 22, 2014 20:14:46

drsmooth wrote:I don't read Salon, don't know who this guy is, but pretty funny (& well-aimed) take on NYTimes op-ed columnists


The thing about Pareene is that he's every bit as hackish, predictable and annoying as the media types he mocks. What you've read is what he does. So far as I can tell, it's all he does.

That said, I probably 75 percent agree with him. Dowd is just sad and adds nothing. Brooks was mildly interesting ten years ago. I actually like Friedman's writing about Israel but he's unbearable on every other subject.

I was pleasantly surprised by his take on Douthat, which is pretty much exactly mine: he's a smart and earnest guy who engages liberal arguments thoughtfully, but who's cringeworthy when he tries to find rational grounds for the homophobic and misogynistic views he's institutionally obligated to support.

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Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby drsmooth » Tue Apr 22, 2014 20:46:48

dajafi wrote:I was pleasantly surprised by his take on Douthat, which is pretty much exactly mine: he's a smart and earnest guy who engages liberal arguments thoughtfully, but who's cringeworthy when he tries to find rational grounds for the homophobic and misogynistic views he's institutionally obligated to support.


Yep. For me, Douthat takes cringeworthy to a level I'm ashamed to admit makes me soooo want to power-wedgie the little turnip
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Re: Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

Postby Luzinski's Gut » Tue Apr 22, 2014 22:05:43

Freidman is horrendous, he is openly mocked on a daily basis within the Pentagon. Complete and utter hack.
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