Crimea and Putinishment (politics)

by **SK790** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 17:09:06

it's just another version of the original argument. i get that people think this separate but equal solution to gay marriage is a great idea and all, but why the hell are so many people up in arms about the definition of a gaddamn word? i'm supposed to feel bad for these people because they're called bigots when in reality, they just want to have a dumb sub-classification for same sex civil unions? oh the horror. if only we worried about the actual people who were currently being affected. you know, the gays who can't get married right now.

every goddamn libertarian point seems to come down to this. forget the people who are actually oppressed, what is this going to do to people who hold bigoted views and want to announce them publicly!?! or what about the plight of the people who are okay with the gays getting "married", but really, really don't want to share the word "marriage" because that'd gay up their marriage or something!?! when will people stand up for these poor, oppressed people.

by **Werthless** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 17:28:13

Can you imagine that a person can hold the view that gay marriage should be legal, and that Eich should not have been pressured to resign? Can you imagine? Well, the reason I posted that article is for that view to be articulated.

The people who declare that gays and lesbians should enjoy equal domestic benefits but want to reserve the title "marriage" for opposite-sex unions are wrong for several reasons. But it's not credible to argue that they're in the same moral category as the bigots who sustained Jim Crow, or that the narrow right they'd withhold has done similar harm and thus warrants the same response (even if you believe, as I do, that withholding the name marriage is wrong and harmful).

When everything is like Jim Crow, people stop listening.

To justify stigmatizing folks he disagrees with on gay marriage in a way he'd never stigmatize antagonists on "tax hikes or even the war in Afghanistan," Oremus claims he's identified a special case. He thinks gay-marriage opponents are different, because they believe "that some people do not deserve the same basic rights as others."

That's ostensibly his red line. And many on his side of the argument make similar claims. Yet I find their outrage curiously, unwittingly selective.

Once you've gotten to a threshold where lots of powerful people will stigmatize a behavior, the point had already been reached where it would be defeated without stigma.
Proponents of drone strikes in Pakistan and Yemen believe "that some people do not deserve the same basic rights as others." Advocates of deporting illegal immigrants believe "that some people do not deserve the same basic rights as others." Advocates of spying on Muslim Americans believe "that some people do not deserve the same rights as others." Indefinite-detention apologists believe "that some people do not deserve the same rights as others." On a weekly basis, I write about all sorts of civil-libertarian causes, foreign and domestic. Let me assure everyone that there is no end to policies implicitly or explicitly premised on the notion "that some people do not deserve the same rights as others." If that's the standard, why are gay-marriage opponents the only ones being stigmatized? How many members of the Mozilla community could I get on record calling Barack Obama or Michael Bloomberg a hateful bigot for doing orders of magnitude more to perpetrate rights violations than a CEO making a donation?

mmm, human rights.

by **drsmooth** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 17:38:48

Werthless wrote:Can you imagine that a person can hold the view that gay marriage should be legal, and that Eich should not have been pressured to resign? Can you imagine?....mmm, human rights.

tell us again about the procreative institutions, Uncle Werthless

by **SK790** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 21:56:21

i don't think he should have had to resign, either. my point all along has been that i don't care that he lost his job about it, nor should anyone, because it's much less of a "wrong" than oppressing people because they're gay, which is what he was supporting.

by **SK790** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 22:07:41

again, this millionaire lost his job for, admittedly, a stupid reason, but you oppose that with what he was supporting, you can see why a lot of the public doesn't like it. when you're a higher up at a big company everything you do is going to be scrutinized and associated with your brand, it's just how it is. it sucks for him, but he's going to land on his feet because he's a millionaire and has connections and will get another job making money hand over fist so why are we crying over it? i'm sure there will be whispers at the country club and their kids will suffer embarrassment at whatever private school they're enrolled in; sorry if i don't give a shit about all that given the actual oppression homosexuals have gone through.

by **slugsrbad** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 14:00:06

http://www.businessinsider.com/major-study-finds-that-the-us-is-an-oligarchy-2014-4

by **jerseyhoya** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 14:19:26

Saw that on Facebook yesterday. The political scientists don't use the word oligarchy in the journal article outside of briefly referencing someone else's work in a lit review, and clearly what they're testing isn't whether the US is an oligarchy, but that's the second headline with OLIGARCHY in it.

by **Phan In Phlorida** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 14:21:59

Jews in east Ukrane being told by the pro-Russia militants to register. Lovely.

by **cshort** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 15:09:05

Phan In Phlorida wrote:Jews in east Ukrane being told by the pro-Russia militants to register. Lovely.

Time top draw another line that Putin can cross.

by **Phan In Phlorida** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 16:36:36

Chelsea Clinton is preggers

by **swishnicholson** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 17:02:03

cshort wrote:
Phan In Phlorida wrote:Jews in east Ukrane being told by the pro-Russia militants to register. Lovely.

Time top draw another line that Putin can cross.

Phan In Phlorida wrote:Chelsea Clinton is preggers

OK THAT'S IT!!!!

by **TenuredVulture** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 17:08:30

jerseyhoya wrote:Saw that on Facebook yesterday. The political scientists don't use the word oligarchy in the journal article outside of briefly referencing someone else's work in a lit review, and clearly what they're testing isn't whether the US is an oligarchy, but that's the second headline with OLIGARCHY in it.

That Business insider article really seems to misunderstand what academic research is.

by **drsmooth** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 17:28:13

cshort wrote:
Phan In Phlorida wrote:Jews in east Ukrane being told by the pro-Russia militants to register. Lovely.

Time top draw another line that Putin can cross.

yeah it's pretty much as black & white as that, Senator McCain

by **SK790** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 18:12:56

drsmooth wrote:
cshort wrote:
Phan In Phlorida wrote:Jews in east Ukrane being told by the pro-Russia militants to register. Lovely.

Time top draw another line that Putin can cross.

yeah it's pretty much as black & white as that, Senator McCain

Obama's not doing enough! My plan:

by **traderdave** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 22:20:07

Phan In Phlorida wrote:Chelsea Clinton is preggers

I understand Levi Johnson is the father.

by **pacino** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 06:42:16

8 million people signed up through the website now, and a bunch of youngins signed up. premiums lower than expected. more companies expected to offer plans next enrollment period. uninsured rate vastly lower.

FAILURE

by **Bucky** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 07:23:19

BUT THE WEBSITE USES COMIC SANS

by **Bucky** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 07:40:52

cue alanis morissette?

by **cshort** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 08:17:12

drsmooth wrote:
cshort wrote:
Phan In Phlorida wrote:Jews in east Ukrane being told by the pro-Russia militants to register. Lovely.

Time top draw another line that Putin can cross.

yeah it's pretty much as black & white as that, Senator McCain

Was actually pointing out the silliness of even stating there's a line to cross. Anything we've come out with is completely ignored by Putin. Barry just likes to make himself sound tough, but if that makes you feel better, let him keep doing it.

by **slugsrbad** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 08:25:56

cshort wrote:
drsmooth wrote:
cshort wrote:
Phan In Phlorida wrote:Jews in east Ukrane being told by the pro-Russia militants to register. Lovely.

Time top draw another line that Putin can cross.

yeah it's pretty much as black & white as that, Senator McCain

Was actually pointing out the silliness of even stating there's a line to cross. Anything we've come out with is completely ignored by Putin. Barry just likes to make himself sound tough, but if that makes you feel better, let him keep doing it.

Dude, Barry Jive is tough. He doesn't need to talk tough to make himself feel better, he's self assured like that.

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