It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thread

Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby MoBettle » Fri Jan 27, 2012 15:30:16

They're also denied a whole host of direct and indirect benefits that married people get, even over civil unions.

It's a freedom to/recognize equality issue. These always go the same way eventually, provided it's not something that harms yourself or others. There's not even any substantive economic effects. This really is just one of those things that people are going to be looking back on it in 50 years and say "WTF were they thinking?"
Two days later I get a text back that says I'm a basketball player and a businessman, not a Thundercat.

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby TenuredVulture » Fri Jan 27, 2012 15:42:46

On the other hand, following the Bible and all, we shouldn't let divorced people remarry.
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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby Phan In Phlorida » Fri Jan 27, 2012 15:47:27

Essentially, it's a contract that when dissolved you lose half your shit. Why deny gay people that joy?

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby td11 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 15:55:57

it may not have been founded in bigotry, but anyone upholding the definition of marriage as being between a man and a woman is a bigot in my book. it's fucking 2012.
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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby Bucky » Fri Jan 27, 2012 15:58:44

In her radio show, Dr Laura Schlesinger said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance.

The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura, written by a US man, and posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative:

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination ...
End of that debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you
clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of Menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go
to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I'm confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your adoring fan.

James M. Kauffman, Ed.D. Professor Emeritus,
Dept. Of Curriculum, Instruction, and Special Education
University of Virginia

PS: It would be a damn shame if we couldn't own a Canadian.

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby Phan In Phlorida » Fri Jan 27, 2012 16:01:57

BTW, Barney Frank is getting married. His partner needs the health coverage to have those tiny arms surgically removed from his head.

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby RichmondPhilsFan » Fri Jan 27, 2012 16:22:00

jerseyhoya wrote:
RichmondPhilsFan wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:He doesn't think it's a right.

Bigots didn't used to think that denying service to a black person b/c of their skin color was a violation of civil rights either. Submitting the question of whether something is a right to public opinion is disingenuous at best and fundamentally un-American in any event.

He doesn't think it's a civil right, the State Supreme Court doesn't think it's a civil right, the federal government doesn't think it's a civil right. He can either keep it from happening by himself or put it up to a vote to see whether the state's voters want it to happen. Is vetoing the bill un-American? I'm not really sure why the latter would be worse than the former.

I personally think the comparisons to the fight against Jim Crow (or slavery) are mostly ridiculous and weaken the case for gay marriage. It's not denying service (or the right to vote, etc.) to someone based on the color of their skin. There are significant, relevant biological differences between men and women. Men and women get married and procreate and raise children and keep the human race going. Defining marriage as being between one man and one woman wasn't some arbitrary distinction founded in bigotry.

I don't know if I think it's a civil right. I think it would be good public policy, increasing acceptance and tolerance and letting people live their lives they way they want to without doing harm to the institution of marriage, but right is kind of a big word. I don't know if this climbs to that level. Good things don't all have to be rights.

Who the fuck is comparing the push towards gay marriage to the fight against slavery?

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby swishnicholson » Fri Jan 27, 2012 16:27:58

Forgive me if I'm wrong, jersey, but haven't you stated that you, yourself, are ok with gay marriage?
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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby RichmondPhilsFan » Fri Jan 27, 2012 16:32:16

BTW, you missed my point. Which was that an opponent of the movement saying something isn't a civil rights issue doesn't make it so. (I could reference the Virginia Supreme Court's decision in Loving v. Virginia to refute your ridiculous reference to the NJ Supreme Court, but that's too easy.) And asking for a majority vote on whether something is a civil rights issue is simply absurd, whatever the outcome. As the Loving court said so eloquently:

"The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men."

I didn't say vetoing the bill was un-American... I said that a simple majority vote to determine whether a minority has a fundamental right (marriage) is un-American.

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby pacino » Fri Jan 27, 2012 16:39:14

Phan In Phlorida wrote:BTW, Barney Frank is getting married. His partner needs the health coverage to have those tiny arms surgically removed from his head.

Image

Actually, his partner can't enjoy any of his federal benefits. Not because of bigotry though.

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby jerseyhoya » Fri Jan 27, 2012 16:44:26

swishnicholson wrote:Forgive me if I'm wrong, jersey, but haven't you stated that you, yourself, are ok with gay marriage?

I would say I'm more than OK with it. I would like for it to be the law of the land nationwide, barring that, it should be legal in as many states as possible. Though I do have a real aversion to state courts discovering that it is some fundamental right required by the constitution and imposing it. I don't know, I just have a hard time making the leap to it being a civil right. Maybe I'm overstating the term civil right in my head.

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby RichmondPhilsFan » Fri Jan 27, 2012 17:10:34

jerseyhoya wrote:
swishnicholson wrote:Forgive me if I'm wrong, jersey, but haven't you stated that you, yourself, are ok with gay marriage?

I would say I'm more than OK with it. I would like for it to be the law of the land nationwide, barring that, it should be legal in as many states as possible. Though I do have a real aversion to state courts discovering that it is some fundamental right required by the constitution and imposing it. I don't know, I just have a hard time making the leap to it being a civil right. Maybe I'm overstating the term civil right in my head.

How is it any worse than the US Supreme Court saying that marriage (presumably--at least back then--between a man and a woman) is a fundamental right? Not exactly referenced in the Constitution.

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby drsmooth » Fri Jan 27, 2012 18:49:56

jerseyhoya wrote: Defining marriage as being between one man and one woman wasn't some arbitrary distinction founded in bigotry.


perhaps not "founded in bigotry", but for all intents and purposes arbitrary.

For most of human history there was no marriage. For most of marriage's history, its essence has been much much less about culture or gender or procreation or buggery than property and property and property and property.

Why do lovers of free markets and capitalism and property the more the better with the less taxes the better hate more contracts & contractors?
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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby lethal » Fri Jan 27, 2012 19:17:20

Same sex marriage is an issue more akin to the anti-miscegenation laws, which wasn't fully repealed until Loving v Virginia in 1967. Hell, per wikipedia - It took South Carolina until 1998 and Alabama until 2000 to officially amend their states' constitutions to remove language prohibiting miscegenation. In the respective referendums, 62% of voters in South Carolina and 59% of voters in Alabama voted to remove these laws.

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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby The Dude » Fri Jan 27, 2012 20:23:30

drsmooth wrote:
The Dude wrote:what do you think it means you psycho


it means she may not be secretary of state much longer

when was it that we came to be at odds, friend?


that's what he was saying, though
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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby drsmooth » Fri Jan 27, 2012 20:30:10

The Dude wrote:
drsmooth wrote:
The Dude wrote:what do you think it means you psycho


it means she may not be secretary of state much longer

when was it that we came to be at odds, friend?


that's what he was saying, though


he went beyond that. I wouldn't.

I guess I'm saying if anyone believes Hilary is merely saying, months in advance of any need to reiterate her long-ago announced plan to serve just one term as SoS, that she's just serving one term as SoS, that I feel such a person should think again, or at least imagine what else the future might hold in store for her, in light of what her past and present have yielded for her.
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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby The Dude » Fri Jan 27, 2012 20:31:53

all he said, based on her statements, was that it looked like she was not going to continue the position. bc she said that. you acted like he didn't understand it, and that is why i said what i did
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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby drsmooth » Fri Jan 27, 2012 20:45:18

The Dude wrote:all he said, based on her statements, was that it looked like she was not going to continue the position. bc she said that. you acted like he didn't understand it, and that is why i said what i did


that wasn't all he said (I've underlined the additional bit that prompted me to chime in):


traderdave wrote:I thought she did a pretty damn good job as SOS and I think Obama will miss her. Really.


I don't know if traderdave actually meant more, or less, than what he wrote; my remark in response was merely an attempt to build on, to add a different perspective to, what he wrote.

That's the nature of a conversation, in some circles.
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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby The Dude » Fri Jan 27, 2012 20:56:54

no, you inferred something he didn't even mean to say, then suggested he didn't really understand what he read, b/c you're weird
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Re: It's Newt's World, We're Just Living In It, Politics Thr

Postby pacino » Fri Jan 27, 2012 22:22:31

Jesus Christ, smooth

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