Birthers, Deathers, and the Muddled Middle: POLITICS THREAD

Postby pacino » Sat Sep 12, 2009 19:11:07

Image
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

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Postby traderdave » Sat Sep 12, 2009 21:15:10

pacino wrote:Image


Further proof that the United States is the greatest country on the planet! Minus that guy, of course. :lol:

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Postby TenuredVulture » Sat Sep 12, 2009 21:27:51

dajafi wrote:New Census data compares economic outcomes through two terms of Clinton to two of Bush:

[T]he summary page on the economic experience of average Americans under the past two presidents would look like this:
Under Clinton, the median income increased 14 per cent. Under Bush it declined 4.2 per cent.

Under Clinton the total number of Americans in poverty declined 16.9 per cent; under Bush it increased 26.1 per cent.

Under Clinton the number of children in poverty declined 24.2 per cent; under Bush it increased by 21.4 per cent.

Under Clinton, the number of Americans without health insurance, remained essentially even (down six-tenths of one per cent); under Bush it increased by 20.6 per cent.


You should really evaluate this on the basis of the what happens say between 1994-2002 for clinton, 2002-2010 for Bush, and so on.
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Postby Rev_Beezer » Sat Sep 12, 2009 22:01:07

Year of the Bible sounds awesome.
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Postby Rev_Beezer » Sat Sep 12, 2009 22:04:00

and on a serious note, I've not kept up with this thread, and I'm reading it now. I think TV is my hero.
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Postby Rev_Beezer » Sat Sep 12, 2009 22:15:25

I am watching Kindergarten Cop. Heh. Governor of a State.
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Postby TenuredVulture » Sat Sep 12, 2009 22:17:28

Rev_Beezer wrote:I am watching Kindergarten Cop. Heh. Governor of a State.


I met the bad guy in a bar at the Memphis airport while my flight to Philly was delayed.
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Postby Werthless » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:45:25

Image

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Postby Woody » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:47:00

^ is that pacino?
you sure do seem to have a lot of time on your hands to be on this forum? Do you have a job? Are you a shut-in?

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Postby Bakestar » Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:53:51

zOMG
Foreskin stupid

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Postby gr » Mon Sep 14, 2009 13:48:15

Nobody puts Baby Pacino in a corner
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Postby TenuredVulture » Mon Sep 14, 2009 13:48:16

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/14/opini ... ef=opinion

Found this interesting, though I'm unconvinced about the crime bill. I think my 68/12 parallels are better.
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Postby dajafi » Mon Sep 14, 2009 14:00:47

TenuredVulture wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/14/opinion/14douthat.html?_r=1&ref=opinion

Found this interesting, though I'm unconvinced about the crime bill. I think my 68/12 parallels are better.


It's interesting to see Douthat, whom I think I liked better as an Atlantic blogger, struggle with the same internal battle of independent-minded-guy vs. partisan hack that has illuminated David Brooks's career at the Times.

I think the 1994 comparison is flawed for all kinds of reasons, though, from the deeper hole of credibility that the Republicans now find themselves in, to the more ideologically unified Democratic congressional caucus, to the (I think) faster learning curve of the Obama WH compared to Clinton's.

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Postby TenuredVulture » Mon Sep 14, 2009 14:40:50

dajafi wrote:
TenuredVulture wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/14/opinion/14douthat.html?_r=1&ref=opinion

Found this interesting, though I'm unconvinced about the crime bill. I think my 68/12 parallels are better.


It's interesting to see Douthat, whom I think I liked better as an Atlantic blogger, struggle with the same internal battle of independent-minded-guy vs. partisan hack that has illuminated David Brooks's career at the Times.

I think the 1994 comparison is flawed for all kinds of reasons, though, from the deeper hole of credibility that the Republicans now find themselves in, to the more ideologically unified Democratic congressional caucus, to the (I think) faster learning curve of the Obama WH compared to Clinton's.


Also, Luntz is probably at best only a slightly better pollster than Mark Penn.
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Postby jerseyhoya » Mon Sep 14, 2009 15:30:21

15.3 cents of every dollar I make goes to whining, miserable old people

And that's more a random thought than a political comment. I was going to rant, but keeping it short was easier.

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Postby TenuredVulture » Mon Sep 14, 2009 15:52:59

drsmooth wrote:
TenuredVulture wrote:It's a loose grab bag of nuts, all of whom reflect the continuing influence of Rousseau and the idea that feeling is more authentic than thinking....It owes more I think to Gramsci and Paul DeMan....


I'm intrigued, TV, because I find feeling has decidedly triumphed over thinking in the decisionmaking processes of practically every organization I'm engaged with. Their 'leaders' are beset by a peculiar melange of the behaviors wickedly rendered in The Office (US version - too much actual calculation in Ricky Gervais's Office), Being There, Something Happened, and Action Will Be Taken.

Stark firsthand examples of the failure of these methods (if they can be called methods), of the damage they do, seems to have almost no impact at all. A decision ludicrously made is implemented, fails predictably, and results in - no change whatsoever in the decisionmaking processes. Where once facts would at least influence feelings, now facts are manufactured to comfort feelings - particularly the feelings of incumbent 'leaders'. This is true even in purportedly 'rational' environments where, say, Six Sigma processes have been introduced - because those processes quickly become fetishized, reduced to cult ritual.

My concern about that sort of leadership by feeling in the political realm is that it produces a sort of queasy, directionless authoritarianism, as how incumbent 'leadership' 'feels' about any particular matter is all that informs decisions.


The discussion over how many protesters there were in DC, and why people believe what they believe is in many ways illustrative of my point.

Crowd sizes are estimates, of course, but counting is about as objective a process as you can get.
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Postby laf837 » Mon Sep 14, 2009 16:31:35

I happened to be in DC this weekend (I didn't get the memo) with my family and we happened to be staying at my brothers apt in Penn Quarter and visiting the museums and such - so I was pretty much at ground zero. Definite huge presence but I did not feel particularly overwhelmed by the multitudes of people/protestors. Pretty mild crowd that definitely skewed older. Many unfortunate american flag ensembles.
Something called the Black Family Reunion was also holding an event on the Mall. Made for an amusing contrast.
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Postby dajafi » Mon Sep 14, 2009 16:35:40

jerseyhoya bait:

Independent candidate hurting Corzine

I wonder if there's anything the NJ Dems can do to make Daggett go away. Certainly scruples won't be a problem for them...

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Postby jerseyhoya » Mon Sep 14, 2009 16:42:58

Daggett is a lifelong Republican, plus he's older. I don't think he's in a position where he can be bought with promises of a job in a Corzine administration or whatnot. Just last year he contributed to Lance's congressional campaign. He's given $6300 to NJ Republicans (and, um, George Bush) running for federal office over the past decade. I wonder if he's pulling from Dems/Dem leaning independents if the Corzine campaign won't try and make an issue of this through paid media. Also, I'd be interested to see what they mean by most Daggett supporters voted for Obama and Corzine. 4 out of every 7 voters who went to the polls in NJ in 2008 voted for Obama.

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Postby dajafi » Mon Sep 14, 2009 16:49:02

Thanks, didn't know about his back story.

I wonder if there's any truly popular politician in New Jersey. Maybe Codey, on my Backup QB Principle. (He's forever AJ Feeley in 2003, one could say.)

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