Bakestar wrote:Are these maniacs going to protest all of the ceremonial aspects of the Presidency? Boycott the Easter Egg hunt? State funerals?

You're asking this about the same constituency that wanted to "get" Clinton the moment after the '92 election results were announced


There was a joke that I've heard from loyal righties back in the late 80's earliest 90's... "the dems are such good losers (ie, not sore losers) because they are so used to it".

I have a hard time getting overly upset about the protesters. They don't like Obama and don't support him.

Democrats hated GWB and didn't support him. I know some liberals that may have spontaneously combusted had they learned that GWB was coming to their kids school. Now, the Dems on this board would argue that he earned their rage. You call it tomato, I call it tomatoh.

I may hang out with a very right leaning crew as my friends, dead serious and without malice called my one friend a reasonable liberal and contrasted him with me a hippie liberal. Oh well, I think it's a better than 50/50 shot I vote GOP in 2016 and if not then, surely by 2020.

Jeff, I know that there are nuts on the left. SOme of them even post here. But there's a difference in the way in which nutty Republicans are encouraged by leadership--those in elected office and in the media. The dust up over the school speech started with the Florida Republican Party chair.

But ultimately, the "you do it too" is irrelevant, except to the extent that the insanity of hyper partisans is evidence of a collapse of the institutions that hold civilization together.

Both left and right have embraced the ideals of Rousseau, Robespierre, and for a post-modern twist Gramsci, and history tells us this style of politics leads to a very bad end.

TenuredVulture wrote:Jeff, I know that there are nuts on the left. SOme of them even post here. But there's a difference in the way in which nutty Republicans are encouraged by leadership--those in elected office and in the media. The dust up over the school speech started with the Florida Republican Party chair.

But ultimately, the "you do it too" is irrelevant, except to the extent that the insanity of hyper partisans is evidence of a collapse of the institutions that hold civilization together.

Both left and right have embraced the ideals of Rousseau, Robespierre, and for a post-modern twist Gramsci, and history tells us this style of politics leads to a very bad end.

So the Florida Republican chair spoke out for this. What's he, the 712th highest ranking republican in the US or the 713th? I can't remember. Most GOP leaders have stated the protests are pretty silly. I blame media coverage. This was a non-story that became a story. I don't think civilization is about to collapse.

cshort wrote:It seems this isn't the first time people have been upset about the President speaking to kids. Apparently Bush I caught some heatas well.

You seem like a smart guy, so I assume you're just getting you're kicks in and can distinguish between protests pointed against using government offices for electioneering (fair enough, and probably valid in both cases although I don't believe sufficient either time to make it inadvisable) and those directed toward parents who are advised that they need to protect their children from dangerous ideas-from their President.

Jeff2sf's comment bewilders me. If this was just some normal spouting off on Sunday morning talk shows and c-span and the pages of the Washinggton Post, fine, it's a lot of hot air and it will pass. But as the parent of school-age children, I know that there is much more of a grassroots whispering campaign of fear, hate and disrespect that will linger and affect American civil life for a long time unless reasonable opposition voices speak against it. I'm still waiting for this.

I see this as more a sign of the times, than as a partisan issue, but the article cited by cshort indicates that most of the protest arose AFTER the speech.I attribute this to the fact that Democrats, squirrely as ever, saw no profit in speaking out against a President addressing schoolchildren. That this seemingly Apple Pie issue is now one of contentiousness basically means that there are now no issues lacking contentiousness, and that's a shame.

allentown wrote:

Bakestar wrote:Are these maniacs going to protest all of the ceremonial aspects of the Presidency? Boycott the Easter Egg hunt? State funerals?

Yes. The Republicans are engaged in a continuing campaign of mass destruction. After their economic/regulatory policies led to the Great Depression, Republicans were down for decades. They are beyond desperate to avoid a repeat now that their economic and regulatory policies almost led to a second Depression. Stir up enough anger about enough things and keep repeating the mantra that the recovery package didn't work and Obama owns this economy and maybe a lot of folks will forget whose fingerprints are on this economic disaster. Complain enough about Obama deficits and folks may forget how Republicans turned projected unending future budget surplusses from Clinton, (so large that Greenspan/Bush officials warned of the hazard of paying off the federal debt and eliminating access to Treasury bonds) into a trillion $ deficit and a near depression instead of the promised great economic growth they promised as they implemented their economic prescription. As it did in 1929, Republican economic/regulatory dogma has again been proven a fraud. There is no level of obstructionism, name calling, and raising of phony issues that they won't resort to raise a cloud of dust and try to hide this giant elephant in the room.

Yes, the Republicans sure are the masters of hyperbolic spin campaigns and propaganda.

U.S. Senate candidate Pat Toomey called President Obama’s speech today to school children in Arlington, Virginia “an inspiring and moving speech for students across America.”

“Education is the cornerstone of our country’s future,” Mr. Toomey said, “and it is important that we relay that message to our young students. The President’s emphasis on responsibility and the personal stories about his own education are exactly the kind of inspiring messages our children need to hear from our country’s leaders.”

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich defended President Barack Obama’s speech to school children Tuesday, urging “every child” to read the remarks.

Some conservative critics have accused the president of trying to “indoctrinate” school children with a speech Tuesday welcoming students back to school, but Gingrich said during an interview on NBC’s “Today Show” that the attacks are without merit.

“President Reagan did it, President George H.W. Bush did it,” he said. “I read the speech yesterday when it was posted and I think the White House was smart to post it.”

“It’s a good speech,” Gingrich added. “I recommend it to everybody if you have any doubts. I would love to have every child in America read it, think about it, and learn that they should stay in school and they should study.”

You see we had them say this so that parts of the party seem outwardly reasonable so the rest of us can continue our campaign of mass destruction undetected

It was in last week's VRWC newsletter.

Werthless wrote:Yes, the Republicans sure are the masters of hyperbolic spin campaigns and propaganda.

Death Panels is a master class unto itself; it doesn't even spin, it just sits there, staring at you stupidly, like GEICO money

jerseyhoya wrote:

U.S. Senate candidate Pat Toomey called President Obama’s speech today to school children in Arlington, Virginia “an inspiring and moving speech for students across America.”

“Education is the cornerstone of our country’s future,” Mr. Toomey said, “and it is important that we relay that message to our young students. The President’s emphasis on responsibility and the personal stories about his own education are exactly the kind of inspiring messages our children need to hear from our country’s leaders.”

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich defended President Barack Obama’s speech to school children Tuesday, urging “every child” to read the remarks.

Some conservative critics have accused the president of trying to “indoctrinate” school children with a speech Tuesday welcoming students back to school, but Gingrich said during an interview on NBC’s “Today Show” that the attacks are without merit.

“President Reagan did it, President George H.W. Bush did it,” he said. “I read the speech yesterday when it was posted and I think the White House was smart to post it.”

“It’s a good speech,” Gingrich added. “I recommend it to everybody if you have any doubts. I would love to have every child in America read it, think about it, and learn that they should stay in school and they should study.”

You see we had them say this so that parts of the party seem outwardly reasonable so the rest of us can continue our campaign of mass destruction undetected

It was in last week's VRWC newsletter.

Actually, I think many conservatives actually realize that what is going on out there is dangerous and poses a threat to a functioning republican government. Newt knows enough history to see the shadow of Robespierre in all this.

The partisan backbiting by the fringe over this astounds me. I was raised to respect the office and holder of the US president regardless of my political views. I was instructed that I had the right to complain and comment, but in the end I need to respect the office of the presidency.

The protestation around this is mind boggling. The speech was necessarily release early to put these fears aside, but the paranoia continued. The echos of the fool who pointed out that Castro spoke to the children as well continued. In summary, the stupidity continues.

My school district let it be known that they would not air the speech because it is the first day. That is laughable as nothing gets done the first day, much less the first week. My son told me that they did nothing today, there was not homework, no writing, no math, essentially nothing at all. We, as parents, are free to expose him and discuss the speech with him. When back to school night rolls around I am sure that the school board representative will make his overtly political pitch over the intercom as he has every year he has been in office.

In the end, this divide is the continuation of a process of creating a learned behavior of disrespect and hate. Anyone who read the speech knows that this is not a political message, but a message to demand the best of yourself as a student. People just cannot put their political divisions aside and offer common respect to one another for a moment provide the road map to our national undoing as we hasten our slide into the abyss.

Werthless wrote:

allentown wrote:

Bakestar wrote:Are these maniacs going to protest all of the ceremonial aspects of the Presidency? Boycott the Easter Egg hunt? State funerals?

Yes. The Republicans are engaged in a continuing campaign of mass destruction. After their economic/regulatory policies led to the Great Depression, Republicans were down for decades. They are beyond desperate to avoid a repeat now that their economic and regulatory policies almost led to a second Depression. Stir up enough anger about enough things and keep repeating the mantra that the recovery package didn't work and Obama owns this economy and maybe a lot of folks will forget whose fingerprints are on this economic disaster. Complain enough about Obama deficits and folks may forget how Republicans turned projected unending future budget surplusses from Clinton, (so large that Greenspan/Bush officials warned of the hazard of paying off the federal debt and eliminating access to Treasury bonds) into a trillion $ deficit and a near depression instead of the promised great economic growth they promised as they implemented their economic prescription. As it did in 1929, Republican economic/regulatory dogma has again been proven a fraud. There is no level of obstructionism, name calling, and raising of phony issues that they won't resort to raise a cloud of dust and try to hide this giant elephant in the room.

Yes, the Republicans sure are the masters of hyperbolic spin campaigns and propaganda.

Yeah, it's rare for a party to give us the birthers, the deathers, great umbrage at an opening of school generic Presidential speech all within a few months and in all cases the whackos being supported by members of the party establishment and its media cadre. Also strange to just turn your back on the stinking pile of dog poop economy dropped on all of us and have the party leadership in Congress take no responsibility for cleanup, even at urging of their own President, and then walk around the corner and ask why the other party's major hasn't cleaned up that smelly pile of poop, while their dog bounds happily by their side off its leash. But then, you're the number one booster of that bad pooch and think we all need to pay for its bonus treats.

allentown wrote:

Werthless wrote:

allentown wrote:

Bakestar wrote:Are these maniacs going to protest all of the ceremonial aspects of the Presidency? Boycott the Easter Egg hunt? State funerals?

Yes. The Republicans are engaged in a continuing campaign of mass destruction. After their economic/regulatory policies led to the Great Depression, Republicans were down for decades. They are beyond desperate to avoid a repeat now that their economic and regulatory policies almost led to a second Depression. Stir up enough anger about enough things and keep repeating the mantra that the recovery package didn't work and Obama owns this economy and maybe a lot of folks will forget whose fingerprints are on this economic disaster. Complain enough about Obama deficits and folks may forget how Republicans turned projected unending future budget surplusses from Clinton, (so large that Greenspan/Bush officials warned of the hazard of paying off the federal debt and eliminating access to Treasury bonds) into a trillion $ deficit and a near depression instead of the promised great economic growth they promised as they implemented their economic prescription. As it did in 1929, Republican economic/regulatory dogma has again been proven a fraud. There is no level of obstructionism, name calling, and raising of phony issues that they won't resort to raise a cloud of dust and try to hide this giant elephant in the room.

Yes, the Republicans sure are the masters of hyperbolic spin campaigns and propaganda.

Yeah, it's rare for a party to give us the birthers, the deathers, great umbrage at an opening of school generic Presidential speech all within a few months and in all cases the whackos being supported by members of the party establishment and its media cadre. Also strange to just turn your back on the stinking pile of dog poop economy dropped on all of us and have the party leadership in Congress take no responsibility for cleanup, even at urging of their own President, and then walk around the corner and ask why the other party's major hasn't cleaned up that smelly pile of poop, while their dog bounds happily by their side off its leash. But then, you're the number one booster of that bad pooch and think we all need to pay for its bonus treats.

You obviously don't understand my political views if you think I'm the number one booster of the Republican party. Sorry for interrupting your rant.

I guess we now really know that if the Democrats are for staying in school, studying hard, and staying off drugs, the Republicans are in fact against those things.
[/PiP]

Werthless wrote:Yes, the Republicans sure are the masters of hyperbolic spin campaigns and propaganda.

You obviously don't understand my political views if you think I'm the number one booster of the Republican party. Sorry for interrupting your rant.

the topmost is certainly not a #1-caliber effort, but might understandably be confused with a booster's sarcastic defense.

allentown wrote:

Werthless wrote:

allentown wrote:

Bakestar wrote:Are these maniacs going to protest all of the ceremonial aspects of the Presidency? Boycott the Easter Egg hunt? State funerals?

Yes. The Republicans are engaged in a continuing campaign of mass destruction. After their economic/regulatory policies led to the Great Depression, Republicans were down for decades. They are beyond desperate to avoid a repeat now that their economic and regulatory policies almost led to a second Depression. Stir up enough anger about enough things and keep repeating the mantra that the recovery package didn't work and Obama owns this economy and maybe a lot of folks will forget whose fingerprints are on this economic disaster. Complain enough about Obama deficits and folks may forget how Republicans turned projected unending future budget surplusses from Clinton, (so large that Greenspan/Bush officials warned of the hazard of paying off the federal debt and eliminating access to Treasury bonds) into a trillion $ deficit and a near depression instead of the promised great economic growth they promised as they implemented their economic prescription. As it did in 1929, Republican economic/regulatory dogma has again been proven a fraud. There is no level of obstructionism, name calling, and raising of phony issues that they won't resort to raise a cloud of dust and try to hide this giant elephant in the room.

Yes, the Republicans sure are the masters of hyperbolic spin campaigns and propaganda.

Yeah, it's rare for a party to give us the birthers, the deathers, great umbrage at an opening of school generic Presidential speech all within a few months and in all cases the whackos being supported by members of the party establishment and its media cadre. Also strange to just turn your back on the stinking pile of dog poop economy dropped on all of us and have the party leadership in Congress take no responsibility for cleanup, even at urging of their own President, and then walk around the corner and ask why the other party's major hasn't cleaned up that smelly pile of poop, while their dog bounds happily by their side off its leash. But then, you're the number one booster of that bad pooch and think we all need to pay for its bonus treats.

FWIW, in probably the same way that the hardcore Jews who live here in Brooklyn hate "Jews like me" (the 98 percent nonobservant types) perhaps more than they do the gentiles, the true-believing righties probably would offer Werthless as a human sacrifice to their ever-angry gods even before gutting and setting ablaze those of us with more liberal views.

Libertarianism, which I think is a reasonably fair oversimplification of his beliefs, is utterly unworkable IMO, but it's vastly more coherent and worthy of intellectual respect than whatever the fuck mainstream Republicans are purporting to offer these days.

Yeah, it wasn't as targeted as I hoped, thus me bowing out of the "exchange."

Werthless wrote:Yes, the Republicans sure are the masters of hyperbolic spin campaigns and propaganda.

By comparison, yeah. Which, if you think about it, does say something about the D's

Werthless wrote:

allentown wrote:

Werthless wrote:

allentown wrote:

Bakestar wrote:Are these maniacs going to protest all of the ceremonial aspects of the Presidency? Boycott the Easter Egg hunt? State funerals?

Yes. The Republicans are engaged in a continuing campaign of mass destruction. After their economic/regulatory policies led to the Great Depression, Republicans were down for decades. They are beyond desperate to avoid a repeat now that their economic and regulatory policies almost led to a second Depression. Stir up enough anger about enough things and keep repeating the mantra that the recovery package didn't work and Obama owns this economy and maybe a lot of folks will forget whose fingerprints are on this economic disaster. Complain enough about Obama deficits and folks may forget how Republicans turned projected unending future budget surplusses from Clinton, (so large that Greenspan/Bush officials warned of the hazard of paying off the federal debt and eliminating access to Treasury bonds) into a trillion $ deficit and a near depression instead of the promised great economic growth they promised as they implemented their economic prescription. As it did in 1929, Republican economic/regulatory dogma has again been proven a fraud. There is no level of obstructionism, name calling, and raising of phony issues that they won't resort to raise a cloud of dust and try to hide this giant elephant in the room.

Yes, the Republicans sure are the masters of hyperbolic spin campaigns and propaganda.

Yeah, it's rare for a party to give us the birthers, the deathers, great umbrage at an opening of school generic Presidential speech all within a few months and in all cases the whackos being supported by members of the party establishment and its media cadre. Also strange to just turn your back on the stinking pile of dog poop economy dropped on all of us and have the party leadership in Congress take no responsibility for cleanup, even at urging of their own President, and then walk around the corner and ask why the other party's major hasn't cleaned up that smelly pile of poop, while their dog bounds happily by their side off its leash. But then, you're the number one booster of that bad pooch and think we all need to pay for its bonus treats.

You obviously don't understand my political views if you think I'm the number one booster of the Republican party. Sorry for interrupting your rant.

I didn't say you were the number one supporter of the Republican Party, I was referring to the bankers.

dajafi wrote:FWIW, in probably the same way that the hardcore Jews who live here in Brooklyn hate "Jews like me" (the 98 percent nonobservant types) perhaps more than they do the gentiles, the true-believing righties probably would offer Werthless as a human sacrifice to their ever-angry gods even before gutting and setting ablaze those of us with more liberal views.

They sorta need the "libruls". Ian Gillan penned a lyric... "the devil and the priest can't exhist if one goes away", it's kinda like that. Of course, on the same album Gillan wrote the lyric "impossibility impissibolity", so take it for what it's worth

jeff2sf wrote:I have a hard time getting overly upset about the protesters. They don't like Obama and don't support him.

Democrats hated GWB and didn't support him. I know some liberals that may have spontaneously combusted had they learned that GWB was coming to their kids school. Now, the Dems on this board would argue that he earned their rage. You call it tomato, I call it tomatoh.

I may hang out with a very right leaning crew as my friends, dead serious and without malice called my one friend a reasonable liberal and contrasted him with me a hippie liberal. Oh well, I think it's a better than 50/50 shot I vote GOP in 2016 and if not then, surely by 2020.

I hate Bush as much as anyone, but I wouldn't have thought there was anything wrong with him speaking to kids about staying in school, working hard, and staying off drugs. If he used the opportunity to talk up the war and tax cuts, well, then I would have been pissed.