Condescension, Flaming, Politics (in that order) Here

Postby TenuredVulture » Wed May 13, 2009 12:10:16

Trent Steele wrote:
TenuredVulture wrote:Really interesting blog from Richard Posner.

By the end of the Clinton administration, I was content to celebrate the triumph of conservatism as I understood it, and had no desire for other than incremental changes in the economic and social structure of the United States. I saw no need for the estate tax to be abolished, marginal personal-income tax rates further reduced, the government shrunk, pragmatism in constitutional law jettisoned in favor of "originalism," the rights of gun owners enlarged, our military posture strengthened, the rise of homosexual rights resisted, or the role of religion in the public sphere expanded. All these became causes embraced by the new conservatism that crested with the reelection of Bush in 2004.


Posner's analysis seems spot to me.


It's a shame that Posner is not a Supreme Court judge.


I don't know if he'd be such a great justice. He has a pretty idiosyncratic view of the law, the law and economics movement is really interesting from a philosophical perspective, and there are certainly legal issues that lend themselves to such an approach--stuff like cell phone use in cars, intellectual property laws, trans fat bans, and the like--where you'd be nuts to assert some kind of "right" to do certain things, but where you'd still want to be wary of excessive government intrusion. But I'm not sure I would want to see that approach tied to constitutional interpretation.
Be Bold!

TenuredVulture
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
 
Posts: 53243
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 00:16:10
Location: Magnolia, AR

Postby lethal » Wed May 13, 2009 12:16:52

I totally forgot that Truman was a Democrat. I'm dumb. I don't think you can credit the decomissioned carriers. I doubt they'll ever name a carrier after Clinton and probably not Obama either. Hard to say if that National Guard experience works in W's favor or not.

lethal
BSG MVP / ninja
BSG MVP / ninja
 
Posts: 10795
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 18:00:11
Location: zOMGWTFBBQ?

Postby kruker » Wed May 13, 2009 12:18:08

The experts at the round table — liberal and conservative — actually agreed to an impressive degree about the best way to fill the hole. They urged the senators to limit the tax deduction for employer-provided health insurance.

The deduction may seem a wonderful thing, but it isn’t. It benefits the wealthy more than anyone else. It encourages employers to overspend on health insurance, because $100 in untaxed medical benefits is more valuable to workers than $100 in taxed income. And, as Mr. Baucus said, the deduction has a certain Willie Sutton appeal for Congress: it’s where the money is.

The government forgoes $250 billion a year in taxes because of the deduction. Capping it, to apply only to reasonably priced health plans, would bring in enough money to fill most of the $90 billion hole.

The idea seems to be classic Obama: empirical, pragmatic, bipartisan. Unfortunately, it happens to be an idea that John McCain campaigned on last year and that Mr. Obama, sensing a political opening, blasted as a tax increase. “Taxing health care instead of fixing it,” intoned the narrator in an Obama campaign advertisement, with ominous music playing in the background. “We can’t afford John McCain.”

Mr. Obama’s economic advisers would be happy to see him reverse his position. But his political advisers remember that ad and know it could be used against him. Further complicating matters, labor unions and Charles Rangel, the influential Democratic House member, say they remain firmly opposed to capping the deduction.


link

kruker
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 17818
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 21:36:16
Location: Bucks/NYC

Postby TenuredVulture » Wed May 13, 2009 12:30:03

kruker wrote:
The experts at the round table — liberal and conservative — actually agreed to an impressive degree about the best way to fill the hole. They urged the senators to limit the tax deduction for employer-provided health insurance.

The deduction may seem a wonderful thing, but it isn’t. It benefits the wealthy more than anyone else. It encourages employers to overspend on health insurance, because $100 in untaxed medical benefits is more valuable to workers than $100 in taxed income. And, as Mr. Baucus said, the deduction has a certain Willie Sutton appeal for Congress: it’s where the money is.

The government forgoes $250 billion a year in taxes because of the deduction. Capping it, to apply only to reasonably priced health plans, would bring in enough money to fill most of the $90 billion hole.

The idea seems to be classic Obama: empirical, pragmatic, bipartisan. Unfortunately, it happens to be an idea that John McCain campaigned on last year and that Mr. Obama, sensing a political opening, blasted as a tax increase. “Taxing health care instead of fixing it,” intoned the narrator in an Obama campaign advertisement, with ominous music playing in the background. “We can’t afford John McCain.”

Mr. Obama’s economic advisers would be happy to see him reverse his position. But his political advisers remember that ad and know it could be used against him. Further complicating matters, labor unions and Charles Rangel, the influential Democratic House member, say they remain firmly opposed to capping the deduction.


link


One of the things I emphasize in class that probably shocks students more than anything else I say during the semester (including the idea that parties are good for democracy) is that politicians keep their promises. They insist that I'm wrong, that can't be true, everyone knows they lie. But they can never identify a major promise that wasn't kept. The only major promise that I recall being broken was Bush's promise to not get involved in nation building.

I think by the way there is a way out for Obama on this. There's a difference between a cap on the deduction and eliminating it altogether. And since the idea isn't coming out of the administration, he can say he went along with it as a way of getting comprehensive reform through.
Be Bold!

TenuredVulture
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
 
Posts: 53243
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 00:16:10
Location: Magnolia, AR

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed May 13, 2009 12:31:49

Read my lips, no new taxes

jerseyhoya
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 97408
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 21:56:17

Postby TenuredVulture » Wed May 13, 2009 12:33:30

jerseyhoya wrote:Read my lips, no new taxes


Most of my students weren't born then. The general point still stands--exceptions are rare, and even 20 years later, are still prominent.
Be Bold!

TenuredVulture
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
 
Posts: 53243
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 00:16:10
Location: Magnolia, AR

Postby kruker » Wed May 13, 2009 12:35:26

I'd rather they be willing to break their promises when necessary.

kruker
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 17818
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 21:36:16
Location: Bucks/NYC

Postby Coste2Coste » Wed May 13, 2009 13:21:15

lethal wrote:I totally forgot that Truman was a Democrat. I'm dumb. I don't think you can credit the decomissioned carriers. I doubt they'll ever name a carrier after Clinton and probably not Obama either. Hard to say if that National Guard experience works in W's favor or not.


I totally forgot too :oops:

Coste2Coste
There's Our Old Friend
There's Our Old Friend
 
Posts: 1881
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 21:02:05
Location: 10-6opolis

Postby Phan In Phlorida » Wed May 13, 2009 14:26:20

Image
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Phan In Phlorida
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 12571
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 03:51:57
Location: 22 Acacia Avenue

Postby pacino » Wed May 13, 2009 16:13:13

I listened to my daily 5 minutes of crazy(tm) today in the car. Hannity said something like 'Freedom, i.e. free-market capitalism', as though freedom MEANT capitalism. Do people really believe that is the meaning of freedom?
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

pacino
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 75831
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 18:37:20
Location: Furkin Good

Postby kopphanatic » Wed May 13, 2009 16:15:37

The total lack of understanding of basic history and civics displayed by many people in this country frightens and sickens me.
You're the conductor Ruben. Time to blow the whistle!

kopphanatic
There's Our Old Friend
There's Our Old Friend
 
Posts: 3617
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 20:51:34
Location: middle in

Postby TenuredVulture » Wed May 13, 2009 16:31:03

Feel free to bump this or quote this when I'm proven wrong, but I predict Crist will crush Rubio in the FL Rep primary, winning by more than 15 points.
Be Bold!

TenuredVulture
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
 
Posts: 53243
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 00:16:10
Location: Magnolia, AR

Postby pacino » Wed May 13, 2009 16:40:51

LOL

Top right wing blogger Erick Erickson of RedState.com is now calling for conservatives to stop giving money to the NRSC over the endorsement of Crist, who is running against conservative former House Speaker Mark Rubio.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.

Calvinball wrote:Pacino was right.

pacino
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 75831
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 18:37:20
Location: Furkin Good

Postby Werthless » Wed May 13, 2009 16:51:23

pacino wrote:I listened to my daily 5 minutes of crazy(tm) today in the car. Hannity said something like 'Freedom, i.e. free-market capitalism', as though freedom MEANT capitalism. Do people really believe that is the meaning of freedom?

It's not how I would define it, but I can see what he means. Capitalism can be defined as simply a system of voluntary transactions, where individuals make their own decisions about what to buy, produce, and trade. Free market capitalism can thus be considered freedom in the economic realm.

If we had true freedom, then people could join into cooperatives and share resources. They would be free to do so. But if these people tried to enforce their sharing onto unwilling others, then we wouldn't have freedom then, would we?

Werthless
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 12968
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 16:07:07

Postby allentown » Wed May 13, 2009 18:33:58

Werthless wrote:
pacino wrote:I listened to my daily 5 minutes of crazy(tm) today in the car. Hannity said something like 'Freedom, i.e. free-market capitalism', as though freedom MEANT capitalism. Do people really believe that is the meaning of freedom?

It's not how I would define it, but I can see what he means. Capitalism can be defined as simply a system of voluntary transactions, where individuals make their own decisions about what to buy, produce, and trade. Free market capitalism can thus be considered freedom in the economic realm.

If we had true freedom, then people could join into cooperatives and share resources. They would be free to do so. But if these people tried to enforce their sharing onto unwilling others, then we wouldn't have freedom then, would we?

Unregulated laissez faire capitalism results in freedom only for those with a ton of money, who control the means of production. If you start with, or devolve to, a condition of extreme wealth inequality, then you can wind up with the brutal conditions and lack of choices seen for the masses in Britain during the early industrial age and in the mining communities and company towns in the US. Child labor was prevalent, work places were dirty and dangerous, and working hours were very long and labor was very tough. Workers could not get a decent wage, consumers could by only from monopolies, products were adulterated, the rich could set up debtors prisons, assault and hang unionizers, etc. It was a very grim world. Workers were pretty much equivalent to serfs or slaves. Not at all what most of us would regard as freedom.
We now know that Amaro really is running the Phillies. He and Monty seem to have ignored the committee.
allentown
There's Our Old Friend
There's Our Old Friend
 
Posts: 1633
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 21:04:16
Location: Allentown, PA

Postby kruker » Wed May 13, 2009 18:36:21

moderation, comrades, moderation. :P

kruker
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 17818
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 21:36:16
Location: Bucks/NYC

Postby TenuredVulture » Wed May 13, 2009 19:00:51

Do I want to bring up Mill's fifth chapter in On Liberty on this very point? Anyway, while Mill is generally friendly to free markets and uncomfortable with government regulation, he anticipates the problem with defining freedom in terms of free markets.

I think it's critical to not there's a lot more to life (and thus freedom) than buying and selling. I'd further add that restrictions on buying and selling do not amount to totalitarianism.
Be Bold!

TenuredVulture
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
You've Got to Be Kidding Me!
 
Posts: 53243
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 00:16:10
Location: Magnolia, AR

Postby dajafi » Wed May 13, 2009 19:59:08

Wow--check out this anti-Crist ad from the 2006 gubernatorial campaign.

Subtle, it ain't.

dajafi
Moderator / BSG MVP
Moderator / BSG MVP
 
Posts: 24567
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 20:03:18
Location: Brooklyn

Postby kruker » Wed May 13, 2009 20:01:50

Mayor of Providence wants to tax students @ $150 a semester. That's not going to work.

kruker
Space Cadet
Space Cadet
 
Posts: 17818
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 21:36:16
Location: Bucks/NYC

Postby jerseyhoya » Wed May 13, 2009 20:02:41

<table><tbody><tr><td><a>The Daily Show With Jon Stewart</a></td><td>M - Th 11p / 10c</td></tr><tr><td><a>Arizona State Snubs Obama</a></td></tr><tr><td><a>thedailyshow.com</a></td></tr><tr><td><embed src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:227327' width='360' height='301' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr><td><table><tr><td><a>Daily Show<br> Full Episodes</a></td><td><a>Economic Crisis</a></td><td><a>Political Humor</a></td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

I have no idea how to fix the formatting, but this is funny.

jerseyhoya
BSG MVP
BSG MVP
 
Posts: 97408
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 21:56:17

PreviousNext