jerseyhoya wrote:Dick Cheney in the house.

Did he have rouge on?

Woody wrote:

jerseyhoya wrote:Dick Cheney in the house.

Did he have rouge on?

Rouge or ruse? I get those confused.

homosaywhat

Woody wrote:homosaywhat

This is what you missed yesterday in the Cardinals thread. ek said it was a rouge that Boldin said he was going to play.

Bush has quite smirk through most of this address

jerseyhoya wrote:

Woody wrote:homosaywhat

This is what you missed yesterday in the Cardinals thread. ek said it was a rouge that Boldin said he was going to play.

he was probably stoned

Joe the Plumber is doing war reports? And complaining about war reporters, apparently. Huh?

Bush Bids the Nation Farewell
In his final televised address, the president says he always acted in the country's best interests.

Making Halliburton lots of money is in the country's best interest I guess since its an American company

He looked weird during that speech last night, different mannerisms and facial expressions. I think it was a fake Bush

I didn't watch it, and I have little to say on it other than that I'm honestly relieved he didn't turn to the camera and say, "You know what? Fuck all of you. I've got four days left--but I'm resigning right now, and letting Cheney do what he wants until Doctor Feelgood takes over next week. See what you think of me after Dick does his thing for a few days."

dajafi wrote:I didn't watch it, and I have little to say on it other than that I'm honestly relieved he didn't turn to the camera and say, "You know what? $#@! all of you. I've got four days left- and we're going to war with Iraq, Syria, North Korea and Venezuela "

fyp

If he had said we were going to war with Iraq, that would have been something.

So, thinking about Bush's status in history, what about Iraq? I mean, I still believe it was unnecessary, but right now it looks like there will be a fragile, yet democratic and unified Iraq, and there won't be permanent US bases there. So, now the question is was it worth the cost? Time will tell.

TenuredVulture wrote:So, thinking about Bush's status in history, what about Iraq? I mean, I still believe it was unnecessary, but right now it looks like there will be a fragile, yet democratic and unified Iraq, and there won't be permanent US bases there. So, now the question is was it worth the cost? Time will tell.

Probably it depends on where you peg the cost, and how "democratic" it really is. I still can't get past the seeming reality that we strengthened Iran when a big objective was to block them in the region, as well as the opportunity cost for not finishing Afghanistan.

dajafi wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:So, thinking about Bush's status in history, what about Iraq? I mean, I still believe it was unnecessary, but right now it looks like there will be a fragile, yet democratic and unified Iraq, and there won't be permanent US bases there. So, now the question is was it worth the cost? Time will tell.

Probably it depends on where you peg the cost, and how "democratic" it really is. I still can't get past the seeming reality that we strengthened Iran when a big objective was to block them in the region, as well as the opportunity cost for not finishing Afghanistan.

All that is true. I do think the calculus is very different than it was even a year ago. The great irony in all this is that Obama owes his Presidency to his consistent opposition to the Iraq war, and at the end of the day, the difference between Obama and McCain and Bush on Iraq not all that significant.

None of this negates the argument that the Bush administration's conduct of the war seems to leave a lot to be desired--had they avoided costly errors in the early months of the conflict, things might have looked a lot different.

From what I heard of Bush's speech yesterday, he does seem like a pretty thoughtless and unengaged person. He talked about Katrina as if the real thing he was criticized for was flying over the city in Air Force 1, when the fact is that problem was the way in which the Federal government with the exception of the coast guard was unprepared and impotent. There seems to be a troubling disconnect from reality.

TenuredVulture wrote:

dajafi wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:So, thinking about Bush's status in history, what about Iraq? I mean, I still believe it was unnecessary, but right now it looks like there will be a fragile, yet democratic and unified Iraq, and there won't be permanent US bases there. So, now the question is was it worth the cost? Time will tell.

Probably it depends on where you peg the cost, and how "democratic" it really is. I still can't get past the seeming reality that we strengthened Iran when a big objective was to block them in the region, as well as the opportunity cost for not finishing Afghanistan.

All that is true. I do think the calculus is very different than it was even a year ago. The great irony in all this is that Obama owes his Presidency to his consistent opposition to the Iraq war, and at the end of the day, the difference between Obama and McCain and Bush on Iraq not all that significant.

None of this negates the argument that the Bush administration's conduct of the war seems to leave a lot to be desired--had they avoided costly errors in the early months of the conflict, things might have looked a lot different.

From what I heard of Bush's speech yesterday, he does seem like a pretty thoughtless and unengaged person. He talked about Katrina as if the real thing he was criticized for was flying over the city in Air Force 1, when the fact is that problem was the way in which the Federal government with the exception of the coast guard was unprepared and impotent. There seems to be a troubling disconnect from reality.

Which was/is one of the biggest complaints about his father too

Warszawa wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:

dajafi wrote:

TenuredVulture wrote:So, thinking about Bush's status in history, what about Iraq? I mean, I still believe it was unnecessary, but right now it looks like there will be a fragile, yet democratic and unified Iraq, and there won't be permanent US bases there. So, now the question is was it worth the cost? Time will tell.

Probably it depends on where you peg the cost, and how "democratic" it really is. I still can't get past the seeming reality that we strengthened Iran when a big objective was to block them in the region, as well as the opportunity cost for not finishing Afghanistan.

All that is true. I do think the calculus is very different than it was even a year ago. The great irony in all this is that Obama owes his Presidency to his consistent opposition to the Iraq war, and at the end of the day, the difference between Obama and McCain and Bush on Iraq not all that significant.

None of this negates the argument that the Bush administration's conduct of the war seems to leave a lot to be desired--had they avoided costly errors in the early months of the conflict, things might have looked a lot different.

From what I heard of Bush's speech yesterday, he does seem like a pretty thoughtless and unengaged person. He talked about Katrina as if the real thing he was criticized for was flying over the city in Air Force 1, when the fact is that problem was the way in which the Federal government with the exception of the coast guard was unprepared and impotent. There seems to be a troubling disconnect from reality.

Which was/is one of the biggest complaints about his father too

But it's different. It's one thing to say, "my critics are wrong". It's quite another to not even understand what you're criticized for.

TV, speaking past the issue is something that 70% of the population doesn't pick up on. And sometimes I get the feeling that Bush's speeches aren't designed to be respected by you or me, but by those 70%, who will completely miss the use of this rhetorical technique.

I'm not really sure that a "disconnect from reality" is a big criticism of Bush 1.

Werthless wrote:TV, speaking past the issue is something that 70% of the population doesn't pick up on. And sometimes I get the feeling that Bush's speeches aren't designed to be respect by you or me, but by those 70%, who will miss this rhetorical technique.

Maybe. I'm not sure. I do think there is something about Bush's political success befuddles me. How did people ever like this guy is something I don't get--and it isn't ideological--Huckabee and Reagan have an appeal that is obvious to me. I mean, there's a lot I do like about Huckabee.

All this came up in the context of the way the "did you make any mistakes" question was handled. I actually think Bush sincerely doesn't recognize any errors. It's not that he denies making any mistakes, but he simply doesn't hold himself accountable to himself.

Sometimes, I even wonder if he enjoyed the Presidency, the way Clinton and Reagan so obviously did. He mentioned the burdens of the office, which I'm sure are tremendous. But he had very little positive to say.