That was awful.

1. You haven't actually told me why I need to listen to everything Bill says.
2. You haven't told me why blacks AREN'T "core dems"
3. You also haven't convinced me that Hillary's more moderate, on a move the needle sort of scale than Obama.

Finally, I'm a moderate, I like moderates. You may have missed it, but I reamed Obama supporters out for supporting Clinton in a theoretical contest against McCain if they "hate" Clinton. I like McCain and am not in any way a hard-core, or even registered, Democrat (ok, technically I just registered Dem this year to vote Obama, and I'm going back to being an independent just as soon as I can).

Phan In Phlorida wrote:... not only blasts Bill for bringing negative attention to Hillary's campaign, but also eludes that Bill's been hittin' the ladies whilst on the campaign road for Hillary.

Bill eludes (or tries to); VF alludes; Hillary quaaludes?

jerseyhoya wrote:It's all academic at this point, but it does look like Hillary would have made the better general election candidate against McCain. Obama has a higher ceiling and a lower floor, but Hillary seems to have a much, much easier time cobbling together 270 than he does.

Of course there's more to life than winning elections* and so plenty of reasons to support Barack instead of Hillary.

*Or so they tell me.

all your rattling on may pass for incisive observation in your world, but the calendar tells me the election takes place a few months hence.

So we'll see.

When dajafi applies the term concern troll to you, he should do so IN ALL CAPS, & call you MR. CONCERN TROLL

A concern troll is a pseudonym created by a user whose point of view is opposed to the one that the user's sockpuppet claims to hold. The concern troll posts in web forums devoted to its declared point of view and attempts to sway the group's actions or opinions while claiming to share their goals, but with professed "concerns". The goal is to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt within the group.

I don't share your goals, unless your goal is to get John McCain elected president. I'm not a concern troll. You need to hook your weird vocab machine up to wikipedia.

jerseyhoya wrote:

A concern troll is a pseudonym created by a user whose point of view is opposed to the one that the user's sockpuppet claims to hold. The concern troll posts in web forums devoted to its declared point of view and attempts to sway the group's actions or opinions while claiming to share their goals, but with professed "concerns". The goal is to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt within the group.

I don't share your goals, unless your goal is to get John McCain elected president. I'm not a concern troll. You need to hook your weird vocab machine up to wikipedia.

Methinks you adhere to the letter of the definition too much.

But you already know that

I'm also not trying to sow fear, uncertainty or doubt. Obama is your best candidate at this point, and has been as soon as it became apparent that she couldn't beat him without resorting to some distinctly stinky stuff. I'd say that happened about when she lost to him in Wisconsin in the middle of February, and I think I said as much on this board.

This is not an Obama board or a Democratic board (though it may seem that way at times).

I'm also not posting to sway your opinions. I would rather face Obama in Novmber by a little bit, but I'd rather Hillary be president by a little bit; call it a push.

I meet the criteria of just about none of that entire definition.

I think Phan in Phlorida is getting a lot of undeserved crap for pointing out the same thing the numbers are saying. That Hillary would have had an easier time beating McCain this year than Obama will.

Are concern trolls the same people who call in to conservative talk shows and show up on news casts claiming to be someone who's voted Republican for x years but now they're going to vote for a candidate whose values and positions are diametrically opposed to every candidate they've supposedly voted for in the past x years?

So a concern troll is(for example) someone that would come up and tell me that they have been a Republican all there life but they are so sickened by the party currently that they are voting Democrat no matter what?

They do this even though they were always a democrat?

There is a pile of 'in person' concern trolls around my area.

My dad wants me to come with him to Myers' victory party tonight, but it would be technically illegal for me to do so. Probably a more important law to break than the voting illegally one too. Which sucks, cause I really want to go, my dad's having a hard time understanding why I can't, and I think I just ruined his night.

I never should have introduced you people to the phrase "concern troll"

Per my understanding of the term, I'm sure jerseyhoya doesn't qualify--because he's upfront about his leanings.

And FWIW, 80 percent of the time I truly appreciate his analysis and insights into the nuts and bolts of this stuff. (The other 20 percent is what gets me, when I can't choke down my anger at what tends to happen when the people he works for win and the real-world consequences of that. This is not his fault and shouldn't be taken personally, though I understand why it is. My guess is that if we're here long enough and the Bush years recede, so too will my anger at this stuff. Aside from DeLay and, for awhile, Gingrich, I've never been as disgusted by Republicans as I have been with GWB, and I really do want to see the party reform and provide a strong loyal opposition, at the least.)

PiP sort of does, or might, which is why I used it for him in the first place. If you look at the balance of his posts, he seems to believe that the Republicans deserve to lose since Bush and the DeLay/Frist Congress did such an awful job for the balance of this decade. But what he posts most of the time could be perceived as anti-Obama arguments couched in "concern language, e.g. "the Democrats could lose this thing if Obama doesn't win a drinking contest against Big Union Larry, the semiprofessional drunk in Williamsport whose views are a proxy for hardworking working-class working white people everywhere."

But he says he's sincere, and I don't know any reason to doubt that's true. So in all honesty I apologize for using the term.

POLLS ARE CLOSED IN NEW JERSEY

Come on Chris Myers, you bald bastard.

Justin Murphy, on the Ron Paul line, has 22% of the vote in Ocean County right now. Jack Kelly is barely at 50% in Ocean in (very) early returns. Myers should do better than that in Burlington.

Did McCain just say we should be able to deliver hot water to dehydrated babies? Is that to boil them in before he eats them?

My wife is watching McCain in the other room as I've got the game on the computer here. I just walked out to get a beer, and caught a few seconds of it.

What he's trying to do really is beyond ballsy: run away from Bush while holding onto Bush's supporters and, of course, adhering to most of Bush's most reviled policies. If he can pull it off, he'll probably deserve to win.

He does look ruddier than I've recently seen him.

Andrews getting stomped, 63-32 right now.

We have a presumptive democratic nominee.

I just got my "The General Election Begins Tonight" email from McCain.

They sent it out at 8:59 PM. Well, the McCain web team is awake.

jerseyhoya wrote:I just got my "The General Election Begins Tonight" email from McCain.

The internet, and e-mail, is younger than John McCain

Um, concession speech? Why are you talking about the popular vote?

Hillary has some real characters in her crowd tonight.