I would just like to know HOW Allen prevented his teams from winning. There's no evidence he divided any clubhouses. I don't think he ever hid players' bats or gloves making hitting/fielding difficult either.

philliesphhan wrote:I would just like to know HOW Allen prevented his teams from winning. There's no evidence he divided any clubhouses. I don't think he ever hid players' bats or gloves making hitting/fielding difficult either.

I think he did divide clubhouses. Allen never did what everone else had to do and that ALWAYS divides clubhouses or any other group that you can think of.

Whether or not it prevented any of his teams from winning is another question. Given the quality of his team mates, i don't think he prevented any of those clubs from winning. The evidence seems to indicate the opposite. Certainly it does in at least two season and almost certainly in a few others at least.

One thing I remember reading about Allen was that he never had much respect for managers, because none of them played the game at his level. The only manager he had little trouble with was Chuck Tanner with the White Sox. Apparently Tanner never got in his way.

smitty wrote:

philliesphhan wrote:I would just like to know HOW Allen prevented his teams from winning. There's no evidence he divided any clubhouses. I don't think he ever hid players' bats or gloves making hitting/fielding difficult either.

I think he did divide clubhouses. Allen never did what everone else had to do and that ALWAYS divides clubhouses or any other group that you can think of.

Whether or not it prevented any of his teams from winning is another question. Given the quality of his team mates, i don't think he prevented any of those clubs from winning. The evidence seems to indicate the opposite. Certainly it does in at least two season and almost certainly in a few others at least.

Yazstremski vs Conigliaro -- A's of the 70's hating each other -- there have been lots of divides in club-houses especially in the volatile 60's in to 70's....

Philly the Kid wrote:

smitty wrote:

philliesphhan wrote:I would just like to know HOW Allen prevented his teams from winning. There's no evidence he divided any clubhouses. I don't think he ever hid players' bats or gloves making hitting/fielding difficult either.

I think he did divide clubhouses. Allen never did what everone else had to do and that ALWAYS divides clubhouses or any other group that you can think of.

Whether or not it prevented any of his teams from winning is another question. Given the quality of his team mates, i don't think he prevented any of those clubs from winning. The evidence seems to indicate the opposite. Certainly it does in at least two season and almost certainly in a few others at least.

Yazstremski vs Conigliaro -- A's of the 70's hating each other -- there have been lots of divides in club-houses especially in the volatile 60's in to 70's....

Yep, The Yankees of the late 70s. The 70s Phils supposedly as well. Sometimes it tears a team apart. Sometimes it doesn't matter a whit.

21McBride wrote:One thing I remember reading about Allen was that he never had much respect for managers, because none of them played the game at his level. The only manager he had little trouble with was Chuck Tanner with the White Sox. Apparently Tanner never got in his way.

Tanner never got in anyones way. His style works for a time, but he always seemed to lose control of his club pretty soon afterwards.

smitty wrote:

21McBride wrote:One thing I remember reading about Allen was that he never had much respect for managers, because none of them played the game at his level. The only manager he had little trouble with was Chuck Tanner with the White Sox. Apparently Tanner never got in his way.

Tanner never got in anyones way. His style works for a time, but he always seemed to lose control of his club pretty soon afterwards.

I don't remember Ernie Banks or Billy Williams in the World Series? What about Rod Carew? Willie Mays never won a WS in SF, still 0 for 50 seasons in SF. Allen was so close in 64, and the teams he played on simply didn't have the talent and pitching. Early 70's had the Orioles and A's and some others in the AL, Big Red Machine, Pirates -- the O's had 4, 20 game winners one season. White Sox were a team that was never in the hunt and Allen elevated them for a brief spell...

I know he won't get near enough votes, but I'm tired of all these esoteric arguments about how he should've done more. If you want to say his top years weren't top enough, he was too hurt, his career was too short, there are too many others now with way bigger numbers -- ok. But all this stuff about helping his team, being a beloved team mate. The story has already been told of Ashburn, Schmidt and Cash going to recruit him to come back to the Phils to help push them over. Look at 1976, it's still the best regular season #'s (along with '77) in Phils history.

Talk to some of the great players of that era, they will tell you what class Allen belonged to.

Sad.

Yet another Yankee is enshrined, but no Dick Allen.

To be fair, it was baseball historians who elected Gordon, and it was current HOFers who failed to elect Allen. Who knows? He could be elected someday when he's probably dead.

No Santo again=disgrace

Will they ever release the vote totals? How close was anybody on the Veterans list to making it? How much support do any of Santo, Allen, Kaat, etc. have?

Philly the Kid wrote:

smitty wrote:

21McBride wrote:One thing I remember reading about Allen was that he never had much respect for managers, because none of them played the game at his level. The only manager he had little trouble with was Chuck Tanner with the White Sox. Apparently Tanner never got in his way.

Tanner never got in anyones way. His style works for a time, but he always seemed to lose control of his club pretty soon afterwards.

I don't remember Ernie Banks or Billy Williams in the World Series? What about Rod Carew? Willie Mays never won a WS in SF, still 0 for 50 seasons in SF. Allen was so close in 64, and the teams he played on simply didn't have the talent and pitching. Early 70's had the Orioles and A's and some others in the AL, Big Red Machine, Pirates -- the O's had 4, 20 game winners one season. White Sox were a team that was never in the hunt and Allen elevated them for a brief spell...

I know he won't get near enough votes, but I'm tired of all these esoteric arguments about how he should've done more. If you want to say his top years weren't top enough, he was too hurt, his career was too short, there are too many others now with way bigger numbers -- ok. But all this stuff about helping his team, being a beloved team mate. The story has already been told of Ashburn, Schmidt and Cash going to recruit him to come back to the Phils to help push them over. Look at 1976, it's still the best regular season #'s (along with '77) in Phils history.

Talk to some of the great players of that era, they will tell you what class Allen belonged to.

Out of curiosity, I looked up Allen's stats during the famous 10 game losing streak in '64

.415 .442 .634

If the Phillies manager hadn't been such an idiot, as I've heard he started overusing Bunning and Short at the end, Allen might have carried his hot streak right into the WS.

Dick Allen HOF wrote:Sad.

Yet another Yankee is enshrined, but no Dick Allen.

Maybe you needed to black and white a couple Dick Allen photos? Fool the voters into thinking he wrote the yankee pinstripes, not the phillies ones?

Results of the 2008 Pre-1943 Players Ballot (nine votes needed for election): Gordon (10 votes, 83.3 percent), Allie Reynolds (eight, 66.7 percent), Wes Ferrell (six, 50.0 percent), Mickey Vernon (five, 41.7 percent), Deacon White (five, 41.7 percent), Bucky Walters (4, 33.3 percent), Sherry Magee (three, 25.0 percent), Bill Dahlen, Carl Mays and Vern Stephens (fewer than three).

Results of the 2008 Post-1942 Players Ballot (48 votes needed for election): Santo (39 votes, 60.9 percent), Jim Kaat (38, 59.4 percent), Tony Oliva (33, 51.6 percent), Gil Hodges (28, 43.8 percent), Joe Torre (19, 29.7 percent), Maury Wills (15, 23.4 percent), Luis Tiant (13, 20.3 percent), Vada Pinson (12, 18.8 percent), Al Oliver (nine, 14.1 percent), Dick Allen (seven, 10.9 percent).

source

only 7 votes?

I see Joe Gordan had a long and storied career. 11 freaking years

edit: I see now that I assume he lost two years to the war

So Dick Allen is like right on the cusp. Only needs to get 7x as many votes.

Haha it's good to know that the retarded media has never changed. Gordon beat out Ted Williams to be MVP in 1942.

pacino wrote:

Dick Allen HOF wrote:Sad.

Yet another Yankee is enshrined, but no Dick Allen.

Maybe you needed to black and white a couple Dick Allen photos? Fool the voters into thinking he wrote the yankee pinstripes, not the phillies ones?

There is a B&W picture of Allen when he was with the Sox where I always double take because he looks a lot like Reggie. It is more of a reaction of... that's not Reggie... It must be free to use because it turns up often, but hardly looks like Crash.